Forums

An open letter to the MacHeist community: MacHeist 3?

MacHeist Forums » The Front » An open letter to the MacHeist community: MacHeist 3?
Neosmith

Neosmith

Automaton Tech

from Earth
124 posts

Regarding MH3 and I hope this post is read entirely:

I think that it would be nice to have say 40 apps to choose from but I only want 10 of them.  That way I can choose the apps that best suit me!

Say 10 apps for $39
Say 15 apps for $44
Say 20 apps for $49
Say 25 apps for $54
Say 30 apps for $59
Say 35 apps for $64
Say 40 apps for $69

That way say there were 5 apps that I don't have any use for or already have I get a bit of a discount at the same time I can still choose which ones that I want.

This can be done through points.  1 point for each app.  So when a person goes to buy say 10 apps for $39 they would actually be getting 10 points where they would then use those points to choose which apps they want just like how the referral system worked.

As another benefit you could also reward points like in mini heists.
And you can also still use the points system for people that referrer others to MH.

That way it is basically all one system and not separate things.  It would make it easier to setup, keep track of, and easier for us.  That is probably the simplest way of doing it to where everyone would benefit the most including MH.  It would also make it easy for us to give a license to a family member or who ever as it is based on points.

To reward people, you could say give 1 point to people who bought one of the bundles(MH1, MH2, or MHRetail).  You would be rewarding those who already bought while still keeping them coming back to MH for even more great software.

I don't know of a good way yet of how to reward forum users who are active and NOT posting just crap(spam, stupid posts, etc...).  You could still use the points system though once there is a good way to reward the forum users.

Well one good way to reward forum users is like in this thread here where people are giving you feedback or ideas of how do some things.  Say you reward 1 point for those who gave ideas of how to do the next mac heist and then another 1 point to the idea you choose.  If you take parts of the idea say from me then part of an idea from someone else give both of us points as you would be using parts of our ideas.

I think this would be a very good way to get more and more people to MH.  It would be even more people if you had several apps to choose from like in my example 40 apps.  That would get lots of people talking which in turn will get people to the site. 

Besides having a choose your own app is better as what I find interesting or useful would be different from Warbrain, Phil, etc....  You could also include apps that people have been talking about how the missed getting that app that way they have the chance to get it.  Also what will attract more people is the number of apps and the wide variety of apps to choose from.  This will make it a win win for everyone!!

I think what I have said above would be some good food for though.

Go Orange Team!

June 25, 2008 6:05 pm

ryans15

Tinkerer

23 posts

What might help is to put together a list or get feedback on developers and apps people liked in the past and want in the future.  The developers in MH range from very responsive and dedicated to apathetic and seemingly awol.  I want to buy apps that will grow and be updated, even if I have to pay for it.  I hate to invest money into an app, only to see other apps outpace it in terms of development as time goes by.  Those wishy washy developers really erode the quality of the bundle.

June 25, 2008 6:28 pm
dda

dda

Gearhead

58 posts

My two cents:

o I hate, hate, hate referrals; don't turn me into a salesman to get bennies. I don't know a lot of others who use Macs and those I do know, I've already recommended they sign up.
o Don't base things on forum participation; that leads to either inflated post counts or "reputation trading."
o You've already said, "no repeats" but I'll repeat that: "no repeats." :-)
o Have all contract details worked out in advance.
o As much as I like the idea of "real life" events, they didn't seem to work out too well, given the geographic range of heisters.

Some they do and some they don't and some you just can't tell.
  Some they will and some they won't and some it's just as well!

June 25, 2008 7:08 pm

ryans15

Tinkerer

23 posts

In the best interests of MH, they need a referral system.  Its how they get new customers and market themselves.  I know people hate the referrals, but a lot of that was because the first system was implemented late and had some growing pains.  The latest system just never had a chance because the bundle went over like a ton of bricks. 

If someone does not like referring people, they don't have to.  So a referral system can still work and can provide people a way to get some more value from the bundle if the choose. 

The trick is getting a system that is fair and well implemented.  I think the old referral link system with 2 apps available was good.  An ala cart type approach like this last one can work BUT it must be clearly stated what is available, when it will expire and how to get things. 

Bottom line, the system must be in place, tested to make sure it works right every time, and not changed mid stream.  These "one more thing" and "as an added bonus" only seem to get you guys in trouble with your core customers.

June 25, 2008 7:19 pm
ben.mcmahan

ben.mcmahan

Automaton Tech

from Mostly Tucson
455 posts

if referrals are truly to bring in new customers, and not just referral swapping in the forums (ugly!) - you could do a 'community wide' referral system.  where bonuses are given to members who were already registered...say by 2 weeks/months before MH3 started (and only given to those members who bought the bundle), but the goal would be to bring in NEW buyers...

I.e. how many people were:
1) new to the system
2) referred by an existing member

set some thresholds.
X new sales = 1 bonus app for all
2X new sales = 2 bonus apps,
and so on

I cant imagine the MH2 system (where the 2nd of my referral points was an existing member being really nice to me) was ideal, since lots of the "referrals" were just existing members swapping favors (or begging for referrals).

The benefits?
-no sniping referrals
-everyone (limited to pre-existing members) benefits as more referrals happen
-people dont stop referring at 2

The costs?
-existing members who refer noone will receive a benefit (you could solve this by stating that you must refer at least 1 person to get the benefits, but after that it would be community-wide - but this gets you back into the same trouble)

You could still have extra bonuses for top referrers (the promised ipods, other apps, etc.) - but your system wouldn't be founded on competition between members...cooperation rules!

Whatcha got ain't nothin new. This country's hard on people, you can't stop what's coming, it ain't all waiting on you.

That's vanity.

June 25, 2008 8:02 pm
surphaze

surphaze

Automaton Tech

386 posts

I agree with many points already stated here (clear dev contracts, if there are bonuses for a limited number of customers, those should be the early buyers and it should be stated clearly when the special offer runs out, no repeats, etc)

- I liked the referral system last time. Even with the whole referral exchange in the forums - it's an option for the people who don't know many others they can promote MH to to still get the bonus apps. And I'm quite sure it helped to spread the word outside the community as well. Just, next time: Announce it from the beginning, make it clear and don't change what you started.
This counts for other things: Don't change anything if it's not something that will be gain for every purchasor. You just get people upset otherwise.

- Now, very important: Improve your support system. I had a support request and it took 2 months to be solved, I had to post 20 posts in a support thread and write several mails and PMs to the directorate. That's just not cool. And I'm not the only one, you could see that in the support forums.

- Please provide only full versions. Make it clear with the devs: The apps should have exactly the same status as if you would buy them directly from the dev. Everything else causes confusion and anger.
Also don't include betas - not even as an extra. Include betas if they come with a free option for a full license as soon as the app gets out of beta state if the devs seems to be responsible and it can be assumed that they actually deliver. But do not put your purchasors in the position where they have to pay again soon for an app if they like it.
Also please try not to include apps that are at the end of the versions life cycle without including a free upgrade to next major version.

- Take care with what you say. The "weasel" comment might have been considered fun inside the community and it might even have been appropriate - but you're acting as a company with ten thousands of customers and you just spoil your reputation with stuff like that.

- Keep the forums as they are considering censorship. I really appreciate that critical posts are not censored by macheist and I really hope it will stay like this.

- Provide a good FAQ system, easy to find with linkable single answers so if the same questions come up again and again, it's enough to just post a link to the right FAQ.

- Try to consider that many people here know about the MU bundles as well when you choose your apps.
If you wanna do no repeats, check out those other bundles as well. For example, TextExpander is great but I already own Typinator from the MU "parallels" bundle. So  I would consider TextExpander as a repeat somehow.

- Keep up the stuff with adding bonuses with time. It gets people excited and stay put, it makes previous customers happy and it's a lot of fun:-)

- Try to get some of the devs to be active in the forums. The way Jerry from embraceware participated here was highly appreciated in the community.

- If you choose a game as an app, it might be an idea to choose something that has an online gaming mode. Would be just great with so many new people playing it, there would really be something going on and a lot of people to play online with.
Thinking about stuff like galcon for example, the game is cool but there are very few people online - if this would be in a MacHeist bundle, the servers would get stuffed. Will also strengthen the community feeling for some.


That was my ideas about improvements:-)


V

http://surphaze.mybrute.com/

June 25, 2008 8:17 pm

largo

Urchin

3 posts

I bought the first and second bundle and i really wanted to buy the third but too many programs were the same than before. Only 3 or 4 of them I didn't have, but I think a lot  about those three and finally, i didn't buy the bundle.

It will be find if for the next bundle, we can have the oportunity to buy old stuff from old bundle.

Like: I pay the entire price for the new bundle (with new stuff... me, I woud like to get, exemple,  BannerZest Pro) and for each old app it cost me 5$ more. (sorry for my bad english... hope you understand)

June 25, 2008 10:36 pm
shukapaw

shukapaw

Urchin

9 posts

dda wrote:

My two cents:

o I hate, hate, hate referrals; don't turn me into a salesman to get bennies. I don't know a lot of others who use Macs and those I do know, I've already recommended they sign up.
o Don't base things on forum participation; that leads to either inflated post counts or "reputation trading."
o You've already said, "no repeats" but I'll repeat that: "no repeats." :-)
o Have all contract details worked out in advance.
o As much as I like the idea of "real life" events, they didn't seem to work out too well, given the geographic range of heisters.

dda is inside my head. dda has somehow managed to write what I was thinking... exactly!  Please do not turn this into a circus.  Don't encourage form participation for the sake of earning something.  There are already too many comments bordering on useless.

I am one of many "silent lurkers" in the forums and I prefer it this way.  I don't want to have to post "relevant" comments just to save a buck or get a bonus app.  I want to be able to read some well-though-out observations and insights. I am sick-to-death of people begging me to use their link for a referral. 

You had a winning formula early on: great apps, great price, cool heist to solve if you so desired.

Thanks,

Brian

I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman, "Where's the self-help section?"  She said if she told me it would defeat the purpose.

June 26, 2008 12:21 am
mjweb

mjweb

Sky Pirate

from coast2coast
2,343 posts

My MH III Advise...

THE HEIST
Is what makes MH great. You guys are good! Top yourself. More Google Street View, RM Maze type cleverness. You can improve on your plots but you already know that so I'm not going to harp. Keep up the good work!

THE BUNDLE
I was reluctant to buy MH II. PM and VD pushed me over the top but it was a mercy buy. You guys can do much much better! Go for next years killer apps, not last years I already got 'em.

THE COMMUNITY
Above all else I love the MH community! Except when the Directorate turns it into a beggars colony or a bitchfest with one of their greedy poorly developed promotions. Think out the ramifications beforehand. You guys know what I mean.

Good luck!

www.mjweber.com | Flickr

June 26, 2008 4:12 am
rampancy

rampancy

Moderator

from Denial.
3,890 posts

mjweb wrote:

THE BUNDLE
I was reluctant to buy MH II. PM and VD pushed me over the top but it was a mercy buy. You guys can do much much better! Go for next years killer apps, not last years I already got 'em.

Private messages and venereal disease? Wow, I knew Phill was into aggressive marketing tactics but this is ridiculous... wink

PS: I really like VectorDesigner, but I still can't wrap my head around Pixelmator's UI...time after time I still find myself going back to GraphicConverter.

Marathon Forever.
AppShelf: MacHeist 3 Loot
AppShelf: nanoBundle 1
Check Reciept Page for nanoBundle 2 AppShelf Files.

June 26, 2008 5:19 am
mjweb

mjweb

Sky Pirate

from coast2coast
2,343 posts

I use Photoshop for my real work and play around with Pixelmator -- perhaps because of its Tokyo GUI.

www.mjweber.com | Flickr

June 26, 2008 5:49 am
awakebyjava

awakebyjava

Automaton Tech

from Outpost Gallifrey
234 posts

Echo. I don't post a lot, but am pretty active in the heists I think. I think that the hook with Macheist is the heist itself. Those friends I have told about it I have gotten involved through Skype, working through the missions with them. They have loved the apps, some of them, but the real draw is the challenge. Please focus on that! If you build it, they will come.

Don't legi con comm bility unica fuse with tion.

Twitter

June 26, 2008 6:01 pm
slyreptile

slyreptile

Gearhead

from AZ
83 posts

awakebyjava wrote:

If you build it, they will come.

Ha!  I just watched that movie the other night!  smile

Insert Signature Here

June 26, 2008 6:16 pm
ogottfried

ogottfried

Tinkerer

24 posts

I appreciate the opportunity to give feedback directly to the Directorate on this. I've been a MH member since the beginning and although I post lightly on the forums, I read them often.

I agree with much of the prevailing opinions expressed here (don't reward forum posts, etc.), but have a few other thoughts to share:

-Heists: I've participated in all the Heists to varying degrees. But I found many of them to be over my head in complexity. I've been a Mac user since the early 80's and am pretty proficient in my computer knowledge. But many of the steps in the Heists were over my head. Perhaps one way to broaden the appeal and participation in MH is to make some Heists suitable for (slightly) less sophisticated users. I don't think you should abandon the type of Heists that have been done in the past. Clearly the hardcore MH user enjoys them and that level of a challenge. But making some alternate Heists to accommodate other users would certainly help broaden the participation.

-Apps/Bundles: What's clear from the responses here so far is that everyone likes the idea of building your own bundle, and I agree on that. Overall, I probably only use 15% of the apps I've gotten through MacHeist. I usually download them, play around with them, etc., but only really use a few of them (Newsfire, Rapidweaver, iClip, Pixelmator, etc.). The problem is, website designers want webdesign apps. Graphic designers want graphics apps. Gamers wants games. Etc. So finding a way to satisfy all those people should be imperative in terms of building MHIII.

Thanks for reading.

Proud Mac user since the 512k.

June 26, 2008 7:00 pm
malissalu

malissalu

Tinkerer

from Deep South
37 posts

I'll throw my hat into the ring as well.  I don't post much either...my partner does enough of that for both of us!  smile

I do attempt to contribute to the heists, and I agree with most of the folks that it is the thrill of the heist that sets MH apart from the competition.  Rather than just plunking down some money for a bundle, we get to engage in a lot of fun challenges and interact with a real community.  It is a lot of fun, and it's what keeps me coming back.

Since I don't post much (and even if I did), I don't agree with rewards for posts.  I've seen that in other places, and it just makes a mockery of things.  Then someone doesn't get rewarded for a post (or, heaven forbid, gets penalized) and starts b1tching trying to justify why it should be ok. 

I, too, really like the idea of a build-your-own-bundle concept.  I think it would work quite well, if done properly, and sales would be thru the roof.  I've heard nothing but positive comments regarding the way GGFTYM (give good food....) did this.

Love the loot for mini-heists.  Even if those are limited apps, they're still freebies, so that's ok with me. There have been quite a few apps that I've gotten free that I have gone on to upgrade, so the devs score there.

Keep up the good work.  Looking forward to MH3.

I kiss my pug on the lips smile

June 26, 2008 7:32 pm

scapegoat

Urchin

1 posts

I agree with a lot of what is here already, but here is my $.02

- no referrals
- no forum advantages

- all bundle apps for all buyers
- having 'heists' to unlock freebies and/or discounts is good
- give a decent amount of time for people to complete each heist; and keep them online so everyone can participate

Basically, I think it needs to be fun and doable for all folks; both the hardcore on all the time guys, and people like myself who enjoy the puzzles and seeing new apps (even if they are part of a niche I am not in), but don't have as much time to concentrate on MacHeist every day.  I have a job, a commute, a wife, chores, a social life, etc. It's always lame when I feel like I would have to jockey all of those important things around just so that I can work on a puzzle or be the N-th buyer, etc.

Totally random note: my post count is 1.  Did it reset?  I am sure I have posted here a number of times since MH I  =/

June 26, 2008 10:59 pm
nlortz

nlortz

Gearhead

from CA
56 posts

scapegoat wrote:

I agree with a lot of what is here already, but here is my $.02

- no referrals
- no forum advantages

- all bundle apps for all buyers
- having 'heists' to unlock freebies and/or discounts is good
- give a decent amount of time for people to complete each heist; and keep them online so everyone can participate

Basically, I think it needs to be fun and doable for all folks; both the hardcore on all the time guys, and people like myself who enjoy the puzzles and seeing new apps (even if they are part of a niche I am not in), but don't have as much time to concentrate on MacHeist every day.  I have a job, a commute, a wife, chores, a social life, etc. It's always lame when I feel like I would have to jockey all of those important things around just so that I can work on a puzzle or be the N-th buyer, etc.

Totally random note: my post count is 1.  Did it reset?  I am sure I have posted here a number of times since MH I  =/

Hah!  I think that's an old account that I set up on accident long ago. Wee!

Yes. My avatar needs a a little cleanup work.

June 26, 2008 11:03 pm
phillryu

phillryu

Moderator

1,569 posts

scapegoat wrote:

- give a decent amount of time for people to complete each heist; and keep them online so everyone can participate

We definitely agree with this one here - you should have a week to a week and a half to complete each mission if things go as planned.

Co-Creator of MacHeist, Clear, Partner at tap tap tap | follow me on twitter

June 27, 2008 6:11 am
GaryD

GaryD

Tinkerer

25 posts

fudrummer wrote:

If you are looking to do a system of rewards based on the forums, why not a system based on reputation, rather than post counts?  Basically, other forum members can give reputation (a set amount per week) when they like a post that a member has posted.  That way, you are only rewarding useful posts, not garbage.  Good luck on the setup for MH3!

This, too, can be misused.  That's one reason why it's long gone from Apple Discussions.  [I like him (+); That sure was funny (+), etc.]

RDF Generator Avatar courtesy of MacHeist Member mybagofjems

June 27, 2008 7:34 am
GaryD

GaryD

Tinkerer

25 posts

Phil,

Please "Just Say No" on any thoughts about giving points for posts.  During active Heists, it becomes pretty chaotic as it is.  Posting for point totals surely would clog the forums with drivel and be a turn-off to many folks.  The daily promos at the "other well known place" offer a chance to win the promoted software by posting a comment, producing loads of drivel which bury comments which might actually be useful.  (e.g.  "This looks promising",  "I'm not sure I agree",  "I never used this, but might consider trying it if I had the $5.95", "Saw this in the last MacHeist bundle which I didn't purchase", etc...)

I don't know exactly what you have in mind, but should you decide to reward particular stalwarts here who are key contributors in solving a heist, or a team of folks who go the extra yard to show up in Barrow Alaska during a blizzard for an encounter with a Directorate super spook, that would be really great.

I'd personally be delighted to be rewarded for something significant with credit for a small, additional charity donation made by Macheist, though the value of my input during the heists is paltry at best and I'm rewarded enough by simply being able to keep up with things!

Some rewards might best be awarded behind the scenes to heisters, versus openly announcing them for specific usernames.  This being such a highly competitive group,  avoiding conflicts/divisiveness about why so-and-so received something when "I" was really the better contributor isn't an unlikely forum discussion scenario to be envisioned here.  Depending on your rewards criteria, you may determine it prudent to simply announce that so many such-and-suches were awarded today for such-and-such, while congratulating specific member(s) privately.

If it works for you, perhaps partnering developers might play a role in the rewards process as well.  A developer might offer a lifetime license, a free "Pro" upgrade, a sister App, a developer bundle/suite, or whatever for what he/she selects as the most informative, representative user review(s) and/or uses of the developer's software offering. Create distinct folders/forums specifically for this, along with posting guidelines/rules.  Link these folders/forums to the bundle home page to assist in promoting the software (and the entire bundle) to the public.

While I'm at it... It's not a rewards idea, but you might also consider additional write-in charity nominees for folks to submit and vote on, with said amount donated to the winning charitable cause (after a run-off vote to hone down to the finalists and a final voting session.)  This might serve to bring additional outside interest and attention to the Project.  Who knows, you might get a school built in an impoverished nation or some other specific, worthy thing accomplished.  Basically I'm suggesting that there are scores of unique charitable causes that people really get behind if they can have a small role in the decision process.  (It's also far more exciting than signing a payroll deduction for the company's annual charity fund drive.)  MacHeist's charity aspect is certainly noble and significant, but I think that perhaps it could be enhanced and more effectively employed.  It seems to me that reading about Macheist funding new school construction in that remote village, for an example, may be far more impressive and tangible than donating X  dollars to large charitable organizations.  Seeing photos of the results here the following year would be even more impressive...

RDF Generator Avatar courtesy of MacHeist Member mybagofjems

June 27, 2008 7:57 am

Pinpon341

Urchin

1 posts

Good idea for mac heist 3 I already bought macheist 1 , 2 and the givegoodfoodtouyourmac bundles. I was pleased to find some old but good games for my son in mac heist 2.  Macheist 3 could be oriented to pictures or vidéos?  Any good alternative to the apple I.... could be find to work with our pictures or videos and to make nices  familly or else movies. Thanks again.

June 27, 2008 8:05 am
surphaze

surphaze

Automaton Tech

386 posts

I don't think it makes sense to dedicate a bundle to a certain topic:

If you had a, let's say, "visual design bundle" with graphic apps, converter tools, screencasting, etc only, it would be only interesting for really graphics dedicated people - but those wil already have their most important tools.

I think it's better to have a cool mixture of great apps and tools so you attract a diverse group of customers.

It could be interesting to include specialized apps if it's only one per branch. How about a cool Audio Unit PlugIn for example? Many people will not have a use for it but it could attract some people to purchase that wouldn't at all consider it usually (thinking about my friends circle)


V

http://surphaze.mybrute.com/

June 27, 2008 12:43 pm
phillryu

phillryu

Moderator

1,569 posts

surphaze wrote:

I don't think it makes sense to dedicate a bundle to a certain topic:

If you had a, let's say, "visual design bundle" with graphic apps, converter tools, screencasting, etc only, it would be only interesting for really graphics dedicated people - but those wil already have their most important tools.

I think it's better to have a cool mixture of great apps and tools so you attract a diverse group of customers.

It could be interesting to include specialized apps if it's only one per branch. How about a cool Audio Unit PlugIn for example? Many people will not have a use for it but it could attract some people to purchase that wouldn't at all consider it usually (thinking about my friends circle)


V

Yeah, we've toyed with the idea before of having 'themed' bundles, but this would fit much more in line with a business model of having like, several bundles available throughout the year or something, but doesn't work so well with the 'event' type thing where we are trying to put together a package that will widely appeal to our audience.

On the other hand, we have also always tried to include a mix of 'mainstream', wide use apps and more specialized, 'pro' tools like the graphics apps, Snapz Pro, etc.

Co-Creator of MacHeist, Clear, Partner at tap tap tap | follow me on twitter

June 27, 2008 12:59 pm
phillryu

phillryu

Moderator

1,569 posts

ogottfried wrote:

-Apps/Bundles: What's clear from the responses here so far is that everyone likes the idea of building your own bundle, and I agree on that. Overall, I probably only use 15% of the apps I've gotten through MacHeist. I usually download them, play around with them, etc., but only really use a few of them (Newsfire, Rapidweaver, iClip, Pixelmator, etc.). The problem is, website designers want webdesign apps. Graphic designers want graphics apps. Gamers wants games. Etc. So finding a way to satisfy all those people should be imperative in terms of building MHIII.

Yeah, this is something we've been pondering for a while. I guess offering a choice of apps would be the type of thing that would skew more towards our hardcore members, but I do question whether it may make things more intimidating, complex, and time consuming (any customer would need to research into all the alternatives to feel like they made the best choice).

I also don't know if offering a choice for the referral apps really worked out - on one hand, many of you really appreciated the opportunity to pick and choose, but I think it was a much less focused, effective lure for the kind of people who have never heard of most of the apps. (Though we tried to improve the referral program from MH2's, ironically the first one had MUCH more participation.)

And of course, the other huge drawback is it would, no question, dilute the bundle. There are only so many awesome Mac apps we can bundle together each year without repeating ourselves, and I guess I am personally more comfortable with the idea of designing the most kickass bundle I can vs. getting twice as many apps of lower average quality and having choice.

Then again, maybe it's just my ego talking here, since it is always pretty fun to 'design' these bundles of software. tongue

EDIT: A final related anecdote - remember the 'choose your Pangea game' thing? That was, I guess you could say, a little dash of choice added to the bundle purchase with MacHeist I. How did you guys feel about that?

Co-Creator of MacHeist, Clear, Partner at tap tap tap | follow me on twitter

June 27, 2008 1:07 pm
dantini

dantini

Automaton Tech

from Riverside, CA USA
380 posts

I think it would be cool to give away some big prizes randomly -- an iMac, CS4, iPod, but I admit I don't know the legalities of that.  You probably can't require a purchase to have a chance to win...

Turning GREEN waiting for the bundle!

WTF? LOL! OMG! ROFL!

June 27, 2008 3:58 pm
dantini

dantini

Automaton Tech

from Riverside, CA USA
380 posts

Oh, if you DID go with a "choose your own" approach, you could use this cliched sequel tagline:

MacHeist III:  This time, it's personal!

big_smile

Turning GREEN waiting for the bundle!

WTF? LOL! OMG! ROFL!

June 27, 2008 4:00 pm
phillryu

phillryu

Moderator

1,569 posts

dantini wrote:

Oh, if you DID go with a "choose your own" approach, you could use this cliched sequel tagline:

MacHeist III:  This time, it's personal!

big_smile

Heh, that's exactly the cornball type tagline I'd support and get vetoed on. big_smile

Co-Creator of MacHeist, Clear, Partner at tap tap tap | follow me on twitter

June 27, 2008 4:29 pm
zombyboy

zombyboy

Automaton Tech

from Denver, CO
184 posts

Vetoed? That's sad because that would be about the perfect marketing approach--and the graphics and marketing material almost write themselves.

Just sayin'.

Loot is King.

June 27, 2008 4:37 pm

tdiaz

Urchin

8 posts

"Belayed" response to the original thread- as I just now saw this..

Please don't tweak the forum, participation of various levels is not possible by everyone, surely you must understand that many factors, time zones being a huge one, have an effect on who gets the clues first and what not. Some of us still work our way through this stuff and posting later would be repetitious and a waste of time.

I fear that this is taking the way of the cell phone company mentality.

Put the screws to your existing, loyal customers and reward new ones in a better way.

To come to me with a message that says "day one only", buy this or else you don't get htis bonus, when you are running the thing for 15 days is kinda absurd.

Some folks can budget the money in later. With your bundle costing under an average tank of gas anymore, there's certainly some consideration that needs to be taken.

Marketplaces change. This one sure has.

This most recently bundle blew chunks. So did the MacUpdate one. Guess it went hand in hand.

Parallel's is a stellar deal, only it would have been 10 times as much had it been offered at a time when it didn't suck so much. 3.0 has been a major nightmare.

It's almost like it's Parallel's ///  .. remember the Apple ///? Ahead of it's time, and rushed to market.

Another thing that is perceived to be is you are buying an app that is about to be deadlined.  Replaced, upgrade, etc. By seeing the app in the bundle it means that the next revision will most likely be pay, if that means the customer is primarily buying this because of a certain app or two, they'll be spending more money again real soon.

GarageSale  was one of those.

In closing, penalizing customers, turning the forum into a status zone and duplication of offerings. Not a good combination.

Rewarding continued support is another thing, nothing wrong there. IE, throw a bone to existing customers who keep on supporting, like say - those of the last bundle, etc. The MacRumors deal where thats it, and now if you happen to still have the link it 404's, not good. At least put up a page saying why and what you 'missed'.  That was the basis for my first point, I couldn't then- now I sorta still wanted to but it just seemed kinda weak to leap at, thus.. I didn't.

June 27, 2008 5:12 pm
nlortz

nlortz

Gearhead

from CA
56 posts

Even though I am not a developer  or directorate; the discussion about a 'choose-your-own' bundled got me thinking.

As a consumer and a MacHeist fan, this of course would be great.  Choose the things I want most out of a larger selection, and pay a fixed price.  Woot.

From a directorate side, I could see it maybe being an issue though.  For it to be a 'discount' for everyone, the directorate would need to price it so that if the user picked the 10 apps with the lowest normal retail prices, they would still be getting a discount.  Since the price of apps in bundles tends to vary a lot (some list for $10, some for $80) this could be a  PITA to figure out and get working nicely for everyone.

From a developer side, a choose-your-own for consumers probably doesn't sound great.  I don't know how contracts/payments/percentages/etc worked in previous bundles, but I would assume that devs got either 1) a fixed $$ amount for participating, 2) a fixed % of the total sales, based on $$s or sale numbers or something.  If consumers pick there own; some apps may not get picked at all, or one app could get picked by everyone.  With both of the 2 above money scenarios, one of those two devs probably won't be very happy; and may be less likely to participate.


Just my rambling thoughts smile

Yes. My avatar needs a a little cleanup work.

June 27, 2008 7:34 pm
artist-illustrator.net

artist-illustrator.net

Dirigible Captain

from Manchester, UK
3,027 posts

People seem to be forgetting that what makes MH stand out from the rest of the software bundle crowd, and IMO make it the best of the bunch. Is the heists + loot

MH1 & MH2 were Both great fun followed by an outstanding deal. I don't think Macheist needs to change at all. If it ain't broke, then leave it alone.

A few weeks of heisting and loot followed by a great value bundle sale. What's wrong with that?

I'm feeling old

June 27, 2008 7:54 pm
travislopes

travislopes

Gearhead

88 posts

nlortz wrote:

From a directorate side, I could see it maybe being an issue though.  For it to be a 'discount' for everyone, the directorate would need to price it so that if the user picked the 10 apps with the lowest normal retail prices, they would still be getting a discount.  Since the price of apps in bundles tends to vary a lot (some list for $10, some for $80) this could be a  PITA to figure out and get working nicely for everyone.

They could possibly put the apps into different groups based on price and when making you're bundle, say "You can pick up to 3 from Group A and only 1 from Group C." That was the retail prices could somewhat equal out.

June 27, 2008 8:33 pm
Wasgo

Wasgo

Sky Pirate

from Vancouver, Canada
1,278 posts

artist-illustrator.net wrote:

A few weeks of heisting and loot followed by a great value bundle sale. What's wrong with that?

Agreed, at least about the bundle. Especially since it's usually one or two big apps that make the sale, but often provides exposure for the other applications. Some do well by it (Awaken) and others die by it (Cha-Ching).

Silver Snakes Assemble!

Join Dropbox today and get an extra 250MB. Click here for details!

June 27, 2008 8:36 pm
apaulio

apaulio

Tinkerer

11 posts

I've liked the bundles that I've purchased and enjoyed following the flow of sales/applications unlocked as they go... It's a fun participatory time and gets me some apps I wouldn't normally buy and some I'm hugely grateful to receive (Pixelmator and Write now for a start).

In the future? I'd like to see tiered $40, $50 and $60 versions with 8, 10 and 12 apps in each maybe, although that takes out the unlocked apps after certain sales targets which is part of the fun, for me and keeps me coming back to the page every few days.

I like the idea of a discount for prior customers, that's a positive sign on the Parallels purchase.

I sort of kind of like the games in it idea, although to be honest I haven't played any of the games in  the past bundle once, although that may be down to my workload as much as anything. They didn't strike me as all that on a cursory glance though...

Personally I like the apps side more: to know that I now have access to writing software, sound software and photo editing as needed is very good and whatever way it works around I'll be looking forward to Macheist 3 when it happens.

writer/doodler\youthworker.
Make me happy smile buy my books! (search Kercal on Play, Amazon and the rest).

June 28, 2008 12:46 pm
t5tr

t5tr

Automaton Tech

270 posts

I'd already purchased Parallels and MacPilot, so I'm passing current Parallels bundle.
I've liked to see a discount for prior customers, and for sure I've no money to spend with a mystery app.
However, I could have given the repeated apps to a friend and kept Lineform on the bag for my use, if I've known that Lineform was the mystery app, and I've also missed the already sold bundle's counter.
How about letting only previous customers known in advance what really is the mystery app?
I'd like to see tiered $40 .. $70 versions on MH 3, but I must confess that facing a really good selection of cool apps is what I've enjoyed most, maybe besides the way this forum is quite responsive in helping each other when trying to figure out what was not revealed or is not working as expected. That creates a nice fitting community feeling.

.:;-= 60 6r33n !
"But you've heard of MH3."

June 28, 2008 4:04 pm
retroleum

retroleum

Gearhead

from Japan
55 posts

phillryu wrote:
ogottfried wrote:

-Apps/Bundles: What's clear from the responses here so far is that everyone likes the idea of building your own bundle, and I agree on that. Overall, I probably only use 15% of the apps I've gotten through MacHeist. I usually download them, play around with them, etc., but only really use a few of them (Newsfire, Rapidweaver, iClip, Pixelmator, etc.). The problem is, website designers want webdesign apps. Graphic designers want graphics apps. Gamers wants games. Etc. So finding a way to satisfy all those people should be imperative in terms of building MHIII.

Yeah, this is something we've been pondering for a while. I guess offering a choice of apps would be the type of thing that would skew more towards our hardcore members, but I do question whether it may make things more intimidating, complex, and time consuming (any customer would need to research into all the alternatives to feel like they made the best choice).

I also don't know if offering a choice for the referral apps really worked out - on one hand, many of you really appreciated the opportunity to pick and choose, but I think it was a much less focused, effective lure for the kind of people who have never heard of most of the apps. (Though we tried to improve the referral program from MH2's, ironically the first one had MUCH more participation.)

And of course, the other huge drawback is it would, no question, dilute the bundle. There are only so many awesome Mac apps we can bundle together each year without repeating ourselves, and I guess I am personally more comfortable with the idea of designing the most kickass bundle I can vs. getting twice as many apps of lower average quality and having choice.

Then again, maybe it's just my ego talking here, since it is always pretty fun to 'design' these bundles of software. tongue

EDIT: A final related anecdote - remember the 'choose your Pangea game' thing? That was, I guess you could say, a little dash of choice added to the bundle purchase with MacHeist I. How did you guys feel about that?

I would personally love the idea of a choose-your-own apps thing, BUT HAVING SAID THAT, I do NOT think you should implement it for MH3. Sure we clamor for it, but having The One bundle again certainly won't stop any of us from buying it and will indeed complicate things for all parties. Besides, the idea of a choose-your-own apps bundle is easily simulated by buying the separate apps for oneself. wink

And to answer your question Phill: I liked the option of choosing my own Pangea game that one time. It worked out well because 1) they were games and games are NOT the main selling point of MH, and 2) they were from the same developer.

Otherwise... I thought the real-life heists were fun, since the heisters were all so connected that I felt like I was in on the action even though I was across the country. If you do more of those, however, I'd suggest making them less like geeky spy work and more like games or fun scavenger hunts where the heisters involved can actually chill and have fun instead of racing across town against the clock.

Alright... thanks for listening to all of our suggestions! As always, a great job to the Directorate and all parties involved!

June 28, 2008 6:28 pm
macpug18

macpug18

Sky Pirate

1,144 posts

Just an added comment because I don't think I voiced it before...but I LOVED using Google Street View during heists.  That just rocked!  It was so much fun. 

I didn't care for the location-based stuff, because it cut too many people out and left us sitting home twiddling our thumbs wondering what the hell was going on.  But street view was awesome.

Would love a mini-heist between now and MH3  wink

You've just read my signature

June 28, 2008 7:12 pm
repete

repete

Automaton Tech

124 posts

I'd like to see this before Christmas.  I would've bought MacHeist II, but had already bought iStop Motion as a Christmas present. 

I understand if the timing is bad, too hard to get it together before the holidays, people too busy to the do the heists, etc, but I thought I would put my two cents in. 

And don't give points for posts.

Time, how short.

June 28, 2008 9:06 pm

beats

Tinkerer

30 posts

points for posts is just asking for trouble, it makes macheist look hurting for forum traffic, you'll just end up punishing customers who still buy the bundles, but don't feel the need to partake in forum conversations.

June 28, 2008 11:28 pm
rampancy

rampancy

Moderator

from Denial.
3,890 posts

ladyvolcc wrote:

I didn't care for the location-based stuff, because it cut too many people out and left us sitting home twiddling our thumbs wondering what the hell was going on.  But street view was awesome.

Yes, I think the "Real Life" missions, while great in theory are easily prone to those problems. I'm really hoping there won't be missions like that for MacHeist 3.

What I did like however were the missions leveraging all kinds of things like Google Street view; also, leveraging the Apple Remote and The Pirate Bay is still a cool idea - I'd like to see other innovative uses of other technologies and places on the web like Twitter or Facebook. I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of people here are on Facebook (or MySpace), and I could think of a lot of things you could do with that. (Clues seen in wall posts, status changes or clues obtained from Facebook apps, etc.)

I'd also like to see other unique Mac features used in the heists as well - we already say the iSight and Apple Remote used...how about a mission where we'd download an app somehow tied into the motion sensor or ambient light sensor on Mac laptops?

iPhone/iPod touch - I'm sure you're tempted to in some way involve the iPhone or the iPod touch (probably with a custom app or something as a clue) but I don't know if there are enough people to make such a clue feasible.

Marathon Forever.
AppShelf: MacHeist 3 Loot
AppShelf: nanoBundle 1
Check Reciept Page for nanoBundle 2 AppShelf Files.

June 30, 2008 5:28 pm
artist-illustrator.net

artist-illustrator.net

Dirigible Captain

from Manchester, UK
3,027 posts

Re posting from the Make Your Own Mac Mix?? thread.

A Spy Vs Spy situation for MH3 would be so cool! getting us all fighting it out for the loot, two or maybe more different sides. first side to solve the heists gets the loot! Double agents, fake clues, dead ends & dirty tricks!

sure, it would cause a lot of bitching about it not being fair that one side gets the loot and the other doesn't, and people complaining about which side they ended up on, the time differences of people around the world, and so on. 

probably a logistics nightmare but it would be an awesome few weeks of heisting!!! big_smile

http://civilizer.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/spy-vs-spy.jpg

I'm feeling old

June 30, 2008 5:36 pm
jamiemcc

jamiemcc

Automaton Tech

118 posts

Points for posting... a very bad idea, for the reasons that have been given above. I do agree that it would lead to forum abuse.

But...

What about a system whereby users could mark (star?) postings that they liked for any particular reason (funny, helpful, etc). The marked postings would NOT get any VISIBLE points or rankings, but they would be reported to moderators as quality posts.

Every so often (every day? every week?), the moderators or directorate could choose a post (or a few posts) and give the poster a special symbol to go next to their avatar.

This symbol would carry a special privilege, like entry to the VIP lounge or similar.

And yes, I think a VIP lounge is a good idea. As long as the entry requirements are open and fair (I still haven't worked out how I got in during MH1!).

June 30, 2008 5:38 pm
jamiemcc

jamiemcc

Automaton Tech

118 posts

Also:

Ideas to keep:
- Discount vouchers for people who participate in each heist. Rewards loyalty and early birds!
- Referral program. Just start it on day one. Refer now, and your bonus comes if they buy.
- Mini-heists.

Things to lose:
- Tacky apps. The Hubert game and the Santa's Gizmo app spring to mind - they rather lowered the average quality and made they whole enterprise look a little... cheap.

June 30, 2008 5:45 pm
nfreader

nfreader

Big Game Hunter

638 posts

I want more IRC support. It's always been a great way to solve heists and pass the time. Utilizing it more often would be an awesome thing.

@nfreader | @nfreaderInaction is conspiracy. Report counter behaviour to the moderation team immediately. Cooperation with your moderation team permits full ration reward.

June 30, 2008 5:53 pm
macpug18

macpug18

Sky Pirate

1,144 posts

nfreader wrote:

I want more IRC support. It's always been a great way to solve heists and pass the time. Utilizing it more often would be an awesome thing.

I use IRC quite a bit during the actual heists.  Not so much in the "off-season".  During a heist, I go back and forth between the two, usually working on the iMac (street view was awesome there!) and IRC is open on my MB.  Works out great!

You've just read my signature

June 30, 2008 6:22 pm
macpug18

macpug18

Sky Pirate

1,144 posts

rampancy wrote:

What I did like however were the missions leveraging all kinds of things like Google Street view; also, leveraging the Apple Remote and The Pirate Bay is still a cool idea - I'd like to see other innovative uses of other technologies and places on the web like Twitter or Facebook. I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of people here are on Facebook (or MySpace), and I could think of a lot of things you could do with that. (Clues seen in wall posts, status changes or clues obtained from Facebook apps, etc.)

I'd also like to see other unique Mac features used in the heists as well - we already say the iSight and Apple Remote used...how about a mission where we'd download an app somehow tied into the motion sensor or ambient light sensor on Mac laptops?

iPhone/iPod touch - I'm sure you're tempted to in some way involve the iPhone or the iPod touch (probably with a custom app or something as a clue) but I don't know if there are enough people to make such a clue feasible.

Those are great ideas re: Twitter and Facebook! 

I enjoyed using the iSight and Apple Remote in the heists as well...those were a lot of fun. 

Thinking about the motion sensor reminds me of those apps (Liquid Mac and 3D Desktop Screensaver come to mind) that use the sensor and pump out some cool graphics.  I got a little seasick with Liquid Mac!  smile  That could be really cool though.

Keep those ideas coming...should be a killer heist!!

You've just read my signature

June 30, 2008 6:31 pm
Sleeves

Sleeves

Sky Pirate

1,497 posts

jamiemcc wrote:

Also:

Ideas to keep:
- Discount vouchers for people who participate in each heist. Rewards loyalty and early birds!
- Referral program. Just start it on day one. Refer now, and your bonus comes if they buy.
- Mini-heists.

Things to lose:
- Tacky apps. The Hubert game and the Santa's Gizmo app spring to mind - they rather lowered the average quality and made they whole enterprise look a little... cheap.

+1

Iced Cocoa | KVN Media | Vimeo | Flickr | TwitterPM

June 30, 2008 8:40 pm
mtaylor

mtaylor

Big Game Hunter

755 posts

I vote for:
Early buyer bonus apps
Everybody gets an unexpected bonus app
Discounts for completing heists
Charity donations
Multiple bundle gifting support
High quality heists (good job so far)

*new idea*: A heist going on DURING the bundle sale, whereby the community can work towards unlocking (heisting!!!!) some additional loot for everybody.  This would get first time buyers in on the fun of the heist.  To use this as a sales spur, you could have an "unlock" bar for "clues" (instead of apps) which would make the super-heist progressively more solvable as the sales numbers increase. That would be slick. 

I vote against:
referrals (don't even get me started)
Forum posting bonuses (just look at the "helpful" comments posted on MUpromo's site to see why this is a bad idea)
"make your own bundle" schemes

In communist russia, the normal force pushes on you!

June 30, 2008 9:45 pm

madha77er

Urchin

1 posts

Wishlist:

Screenflow
Forklift FTP
Textmate
Bee Docs Timeline 3D
Spore - even a discount for digital download would be nice.
Coda
Candybar

June 30, 2008 11:01 pm
Sleeves

Sleeves

Sky Pirate

1,497 posts

Just goin' with the flow:

Spore
Undercover
Stomp
Omnigraffle
DV Backup (coolatoola.com)

I'm sure I'll think of more.

Iced Cocoa | KVN Media | Vimeo | Flickr | TwitterPM

June 30, 2008 11:51 pm
MacHeist Forums » The Front » An open letter to the MacHeist community: MacHeist 3?

Become an agent



Keep me posted on more free offers and deals on great Mac software (We'll never sell your email, spam is evil)


As a MacHeist agent you'll be privy to special missions like these, tons of awesome free software, and the best software deals around. What do you want to hear about?

 

Login to MacHeist



As a MacHeist agent you'll be privy to special missions like these, tons of awesome free software, and the best software deals around. What do you want to hear about?