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Hi all,

Many of you have been waiting on our official response to the Speed Download mess so here we go…

First off, as we’ve stated several times already, ALL licenses for apps participating in the MacHeist II bundle were to be full licenses this time. We made that point crystal clear to all the developers involved. Some of you may remember from MacHeist I that the license for TextMate was slightly limited in that there was to be a minor upgrade charge to their next major version, whereas it was a free upgrade to purchasers directly from their website but this was explicitly stated on the purchase page.

Right before the bundle sale was about to start, we received a build of Speed Download from Yazsoft that included product “activation” and this raised a major red flag for us as again, we made it very clear that there was to be no differentiation between buying from MacHeist and buying directly from the developer. As a result, we contacted Yazsoft alerting them about our concerns. Unfortunately, we didn’t receive a response back from them in time so we had little choice but to pull it from the bundle at the last minute. This decision wasn’t taken lightly at all because we had advance stories prepared with major news outlets and the information we’d given to them was that Speed Download was to be included in the bundle. And as many of you may remember, there was a good amount of fallout when people read that Speed Download was to be included but it actually wasn’t (at the time).

Once the bundle sale was underway, we managed to make contact with Yazsoft and while I don’t feel it’s appropriate to post their responses here without their permission, we do feel it’s very appropriate to show you what we conveyed to them to further make clear that what they were including in MacHeist II was to be the same license that customers would purchase on their website during the time of the bundle sale:

After solid assurance from Yazsoft about all this, we then decided to put Speed Download back into the bundle as a bonus for you.

“Loot” Apps vs. Bundle Apps
Many of you who participated in the MacHeist missions are familiar with “loot” apps. For those of you who didn’t participate, I’m going to try to give a brief explanation to familiarize you with this all… Before the bundle sale happens, we put out a series of “missions” where members solve various puzzles. After a mission is solved, “loot” is awarded as a reward. The loot usually contains a few free apps and a coupon for a discount off the purchase of the bundle. The apps that are awarded as loot are often not full versions (often limited by not being upgradable for free), although some developers do make the decision to include a full license.

We make a HUGE differentiation between a loot app and a bundle app, both in terms of the licensing scheme that we allow developers to provide and in terms of the amount paid to developers. In the case of loot apps, as mentioned above there’s a ton of flexibility in what they’re allowed to provide for a license. This is because in most cases, the main benefit to the developers is in the exposure that they get… it’s a great way to get tens of thousands of people turned-on to their apps. As far as what we pay out to the developers for loot apps, it’s not a ton of money… by design, it’s a great way to get upgrade sales. This works out well because MacHeist members aren’t paying anything for these apps and they’re free to use the loot version of the app indefinitely. But what’s great is that members who like the apps often purchase later upgrades and many developers included in loot have had great success with it.

Now in the case of an actual bundle app, the licensing is very strict. Again, for MacHeist II, we were very careful in making developers aware that what they were to be giving out to purchasers were full licenses. And in terms of the cuts developers get… there’s a common misconception that MacHeist doesn’t compensate developers much for bundle inclusion. But without releasing specific numbers, I’m going to let you all in a little secret… developers get very fair cuts. To put it simply, if they didn’t, there’d be no MacHeist since no developer would agree to be included, knowing how much the sales take in. Anything else you’ve ever heard on the matter is either pure speculation or inaccurate information.

The Developers We Normally Deal With
Trust is extremely important when dealing with most issues, whether personal or business, even when written agreements are involved. And this is why both for MacHeist I and MacHeist II, we’ve generally dealt with developers that we’ve known personally. It’s no real surprise when you see an app like AppZapper or CoverSutra in the bundle because I’m very close friends with Austin Sarner and Sophia Teutschler, the respective developers of those apps. But we don’t personally know everyone in the Mac community who makes a 1st-class app, so it’s natural that we expand outside our circle of comfortability. Sometimes we choose very well, like in the case of Tweakersoft and the inclusion of their stellar app, VectorDesigner. But sometimes we don’t, and that led us to this situation (and this is no reflection on Speed Download itself as an app because we still feel it, in itself, is a first rate, high quality app).

What We believe to be Yazsoft’s Failures
We believe that Yazsoft has made a number of failures in regard to this whole situation. First off, as mentioned above, we made it crystal clear on several occasions that the licenses they’d be providing to customers were to be full licenses with NO RESTRICTIONS compared to licenses for purchases made directly through them. And they assured us that this was the case. In light of this, they didn’t follow-through here.

Another failure is that they released a press release that stated the following:

But after the fact, added this qualification to their website:

The relevant thing is that, as per our agreement with Yazsoft, all of you who purchased the MacHeist II bundle did, in fact, purchase Speed Download during that “grace period” and should be eligible for the free upgrade. Plain and simple.

Yazsoft has tried to use the excuse that Speed Download 4 and Speed Download 5 aren’t the same products but since the Speed Download 5 upgrade was pushed through the auto-update mechanism, this completely nullifies this assertion.

In addition to all this, Yazsoft has repeatedly made public posts regarding this issue that contain very inaccurate information. This is from a comment on MacUpdate.com:

We’ve NEVER anywhere stated that “all Speed Download upgrades are free” as they’ve claimed and used in their defense of this situation.

After carefully assessing the situation, and in light of some facts that we simply can’t make public at this point, we strongly feel that Yazsoft has acted with malicious intent here. Please bear in mind that a statement like this isn’t one that’s ever casually made.

What We Feel Should Happen
We strongly feel that the honorable thing for Yazsoft to do to rectify this situation is to give all MacHeist II bundle purchasers a free upgrade to Speed Download 5. And we feel that any of those qualifying people who’ve already bought the upgrade should be refunded the price of the upgrade by Yazsoft.

Our Pledge to You
We’re currently exploring our legal options here. We at MacHeist strive to bring you the customer great value with our promotions while also providing great benefit to the developers involved and helping out important global causes through the charity donations. And we’ll be fighting for you to see that what’s right is done here.

Ultimately, this whole fiasco warps people’s perspectives on MacHeist because no matter how this turns out, some people will likely make claims in the future that when you buy through MacHeist, you get “crippled” versions of the software. This is extremely unfortunate because we’ve worked very hard to ensure that what you buy in the bundle is not only 1st-class but also not disabled in any way.

We try very hard at everything we do, ranging from the countless sleepless night we go through pulling the missions together to the efforts we spend putting together top notch bundles. Having something like this situation happen simply hurts our reputation and it’s very unfortunate, given the amount of work we put into everything that is MacHeist.

We know that the support for MacHeist regarding this situation has been overwhelmingly positive throughout the whole ordeal (which we sincerely greatly appreciate), with a few exceptions. But now that you’ve all been given a chance to hear our side of the story (at least whatever we’re allowed to reveal), we hope that we’ll be supported unanimously here.

Thanks for your patience and stay tuned for further developments. We may be a bit quiet for a while but we will report back as we have more information that we’re allowed to share...

John Casasanta
MacHeist Director
tap tap tap chief

Thank you so much for making official what many of us have been saying all along. I hope this will end the debate in a lot of ways. I hope you make part of your argument that some of us got licenses while others did not. I support MH and will buy the bundle again next year.

In other news I am now a jewl thief. woot woot!

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johnred: I also would like to say that this statement satisfies my complaint that MH has been too quite and needed to make a statement. I am happy with what you have said and I hope everyone else realizes since legal avenues are being investigated that you are limited in all you can or should say. That statement alone was enough.

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Oh, the drama.

It is rather interesting since I remember Phill stating the license for this was different than the others in the forums just after this was added.

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One last thing. This statement reiterates why YazSoft is indefensible and I am relieved that the MH guys see this the same as the rest of us. Many people have said we are whining and want something for nothing. This should also silence that debate. I was happy because I thought YazSoft was giving out licenses, saw the error of their ways etc. But they have flopped on this and that is very disappointing to me. I started to stick up for them, and then I feel like I stuck my foot in my mouth. I hope everyone can forgive me.

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Source it or it didn't happen... If you find it, copy it, save it, and forward it to YazSoft, they will need it. But I think you are going to have a problem locating it, because I think you may be mistaken.

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You've stated this like 5 times throughout various threads on this. This is extremely annoying simply because it's NOT TRUE and you're coloring the discussion as a result.

THIS WAS NEVER EVER STATED. You're likely confusing this with the "invite app" Circus Ponies Notebook which wasn't a bundle app and had a somewhat limited license.

You really should research things before you state them as fact... OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER...

John Casasanta
MacHeist Director
tap tap tap chief

Exactly, he has irritated everyone repeatedly with this statement which is exactly why I have invited him to source this comment. Back it up or shut up...

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Thanks John. That clarifies the issue a lot and lays to rest many of the speculations that have been made about both MacHeist and Yazsoft. Unfortunately it also confirms the original suspicions that I and many others had about the "malicious intent" of Yazsoft. It also makes all of their subsequent statements even more offensive as they were clearly trying to cover up lies with more lies.

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Right, and it makes those of us who they gave licenses to, who started to defend them feel used. We were obviously pons in this. I am deeply offended to say the least.

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You’re partially right tech. From what I recall Phil mentioned that the only difference was Speed Download’s activation. I don’t think there was even mention of SD5 then though.

Look Ma, no teeth!

No one, YazSoft or MacHeist EVER said the license was different. In fact EVERYONE agreed they were the same. Lets move on from this to a new topic, this is a dead issue.

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Hey!  I know what I read and is why I wasn't all up in arms about this ordeal when it happened.  Believe me if I hadn't read that I'd be one of the upset customers here.

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Why are you in such a bad mood? Can’t people have a civilized conversation?
Did I even the licensing issue in my post?

Look Ma, no teeth!

Prove it. Link to the statement. You are wrong on this one. You are mistaken. Let it go man...

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There was that and the comment it was not a full license like the others.

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It was an overall statement to tech's. I was not disagreeing with you personally. I am not the only one annoyed with him, even johnred is annoyed with him. That is all I am stating. How can anyone say this was an issue when even YazSoft said themselves they did not make a distinction which was their mistake.

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tec, perhaps you’re remembering this:

But in all fairness Phil’s post involves more than that.

Let’s call it a kalel miniheist, and kalel can post the whole quote

Look Ma, no teeth!

He also gets annoyed with me

Look Ma, no teeth!

I never said he didn't read something that he didn't take out of context, in fact, that is exactly what I figured happened.

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Thanks for that comment. Clears many things up. Let's hear how YazSoft will change the statement on their website saying:

Let's hope for the best.

Bob, I don't know why you would want to give everyone a false impression with a partial quote. It is very misleading. For everyones sake here is Phil's FULL quote:

The link is here:

http://www.macheist.com/forums/viewtopi … 266#p92266

Please, lets not play these games, it isn't very helpful. Let's all remain helpful here.

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Everybody needs to calm down a bit.  I've stated what I've read.  Messages get edited and such all of the time so I'm not going down that road wasting my time looking for something that may not have been there after I read it.  I'm not trying to stir things up either.  Between seeing that and then reading the receipt right here on MH's site it just made sense to me how this worked.  I got the same upgrade notification that others did in SD4 and ignored it since I already knew I wouldn't be eligible for it for free and SD4 ran fine anyways.

What's funny is I haven't even been trying to get an update...I was fine with SD4.  The one time I emailed Yazsoft to just see if they would tell me the status of things, they gave me the update...never asked once for it.

I just find it odd that they(MH) waited until now to dispute what I read.

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Thanks John for your reply! I honestly appreciate it. However, we as customers are entitled for full license of SD as was promised to us. We have no legal agreements with Yazsoft in a form of sales transaction in which certain type of product is agreed to be delivered to customer. This legal agreement is between us and MacHeist. Therefore you need to deliver it to us.

I know this sounds harsh but even if wanted to take legal action against Yazsoft I can't since they haven't been the one who sold the product. Its MacHeist that needs to clear this out for your customers. I'm not suggesting you should take legal action against Yazsoft but what you need to do is communicate with them, clear the situation out and deliver the license to your customers.

...and please, next time you do the heist get everything contractually on solid ground. Get the developers to sign a separate addition to distribution agreement that can be published on your web site, which clearly outlines the type of license for every application in the bundle.

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It sounds like your implying the MH guys may have tinkered with their statement. YazSoft for a certainty have modified their statements. Follow the link and you will see Phill never edited what he said. No one is "worked up." I am not mad in any way shape or form. Again, YazSoft admits plainly they made no distinction, why would MH state something YazSoft themselves say they failed to mention?

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It would have been misleading if I didn’t posted But in all fairness Phil’s post involves more than that.

With the partial post anyone using the search function could find the post. You did. You won the kalel miniheist

Look Ma, no teeth!

Does anyone else have thoughts on johnreds statement? A fresh perspective or opinion would be helpful.

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Oh my word...if it makes you happy I'm willing to admit maybe it's just possible to have taken it out of context.  Pretty easy to do on this topic it seems.  I just find it funny you're arguing with me when MH who is handling your money is the one who seems to have possibly a problem with context with no real contract judging by everything. Did they not look over everything including the receipt statement and wonder what they really meant?

As for Yazsoft admitting certain things I understand that some can apologize and give the appearance to some of admitting things.  They certainly made some blunders.

No matter though it's not worth arguing at this point...I've been merely stating what I read and understood and then reading the receipt seemed to make it all make sense.  If you can't understand my point of view on that, well, there are bigger things in the world to worry about.  I do hope this can be resolved.  It's gotten way too ugly for no more than it is.

Odd...I almost feel more wronged by some of the forum readers here than either Yazsoft or MH.

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Using the word tinkered is implying much more.  It could have been nothing more than posting something and then going back and thinking that doesn't read quite like I wanted and altering it.  It could have all been innocent.  I make changes like that all of the time where I might go back in not more than a minute after I post something to correct either a little grammar, add or remove a statement, whatever.  You're also assuming we're talking about the same post.  I also said this as a possibility...maybe it was never there and just maybe I took it out of context.  I *really* don't care now.

It just doesn't matter at this point.  I don't have an ego to demand anyone believe my point of view and haven't demanded it.  Johnred is stating that it wasn't true so feel free to believe him.  I would have appreciated a much more polite, professional statement from him disputing it to be honest...yet another example to me regarding the lack of professionalism from MH.  Again I hope they learn from this as they have learned in other areas since the first one.

I also hope that others here learn from this.  The reactions here by many have been quite impatient and easy to perceive as childish.

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What we need is lawyers opinion. Its pointless pointing fingers and irrelevant from consumers standpoint. All I know is that MacHeist needs to deliver us the license since they sold us the product in the first place. It seems Yazsoft doesn't have legal obligation to do so and trying to get it from them as a consumer is hard since we don't know the facts of the "agreement" between Yaz and Heist.

I'm just trying to keep it simple and base my requirements on information that I know.

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@Meku-
I once held an opinion like yours. I got ripped off for an expensive camera on eBay. Turned out the seller was a teenager who had made a deal w/ a vendor. Kid took our money sent it to the vendor and never got the product to send to us. The vendor was arrested but the money was gone. I felt the kid was the one who owed me a camera or o refund since my contract was with him. But I couldn't collect and the police were adamant that the problem was the vendor since he was the one who acted with malicious intent. That was hard to accept since I had sent off $450 to this kid.

In this situation, yes, we were dealing w/ MH. But it was Yazsoft who had the intent to deceive and who profited from that deception. Plus, once a product has changed hands, warranties etc are usually with the manufacturer. The responsibility shifts.

So while MH is working on our behalf - and I have been given no reason to distrust MH - it is Yazsoft who has been the bad guy. Clearly. MH might be able to get us our licenses. But only Yazsoft can fix their own reputation. So far, there are no signs that that is important enough to them.

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Yes, and John discussed this - the "activation" scheme was what seemingly differentiated our version of SD from a "conventional" version of SD, and it was what made them suspicious of it in the first place.

This really comes across to me as just another excuse for people for use against the Directorate, as if they have some sort of personal vendetta against John. Ridiculous.

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Thanks John, I appreciated the update on this situation.

Thanks MacHeist for a wonderful bundle... I support you guys and will continue to support MacHeist regardless of the outcome of this matter.

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Thanks for clearing this up John.

Keep up the good work... LOVE MacHeist!!!

I can say I'm satisfied with this statement.  The distinction between loot and bundle apps is what did it for me.  If Yazsoft knew they were going to be a**holes about their upgrades then they should have included their product as a loot app and taken a smaller profit.  I'm even more annoyed with Yazsoft for unrightfully taking the same amount of money as other developers who are doing so much more for us. 

This reeks of one of those social injustices that you want people to suffer immensely for.  If what Johnred said is true - and it seems pretty legitimate to me - then Yazsoft are some of the shadiest motherf*ckers I've ever encountered.

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Possible solution?
All the solutions mentioned so far by Yazsoft and others have been unsatisfactory because they do not treat the MH licenses as full normal licenses.
My personal take on Yazsofts' stance is that they need a cash infusion very badly right now so maybe they also feel backed into a corner by their private survival fears.

So the solution must include a free full upgrade for MH purchasers and an influx of cash for Yazsoft.

I propose some version of this:
Yazsoft immediately offers full upgrades to MH users for free.
At the same time they could offer - for a limited time only - full lifetime (or limited# of versions) of SD.
If they have a new product in the wings (right now they are a one product show) they could release a limited version sooner or a Beta and a pre-order offer.

Edit: You'll notice that any solution has to be done by Yazsoft.

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If do we get refund and the official upgrade license, what about the two licenses the upgrade purchasers got (or the 1 free license given to some of the 'nice e-mail' senders), deactivated?

Thanks a Lot

There is an even simpler solution if Yazsoft wants to take it.  They should make the SD4 to SD5 upgrade a donationware upgrade for their customers who bought through MacHeist.

Offer their customers the option to pay ($0, $5, $7.50, $10, $12.50 or $15) for the upgrade.  Let the customers decide who to believe.  And if the customers pay the full $15, then honor the 2:1 offer.

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I like that too.

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I'd first like to thank John for providing us an informative update on the MH position.

Good question?  The extra licenses can(legally) and probably will be deactivated, once a refund is issued.

YS were not honoring free upgrades to the MH license when they gave these licenses out; therefore, they entered a new agreement with these individuals.  If they do deactivate them, we can fight them individually.  I'm not sure any of us would fight with them much, since the license was free.  However, it would still be no less wrong for them to deactivate them.

Great idea. 

Had they done something like that to begin with, along with a story about their financial situation, they stood a chance to make a lot more from it.

I agree this sounds like an excellent compromise for all involved...

Thanks for the update btw MH!  Keep up the good work...

That's what I recall as well and is posted in this thread now.

I'd have had no issue with this at all if the activation was purely for internal "accounting" purposes of tracking MacHeist purchased activations. It would be a reasonable way to see how many of the 43K actually are using the app.

[edit] duh! read the whole thread first before posting... forgot to follow my own rule. (-;

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Thank you John.

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I'm just glad MacHeist made an official statement.

Many thanks to John Casasanta for his response to this unsatisfactory situation. My main concern is that Yaz$oft seem to have created 2nd and 3rd class customers by their actions. Not a great marketing idea:-(

However, from a personal point of view, I think it is worth reminding all  software developers of the tremendous benefits these types of deals have for them. Since taking part in many of these promotions I have bought into many great apps that I would never have bought otherwise, and ended up spending far more money than I ever intended. Having bought so cheaply I am generally happy to support developers by paying for further upgrades. I also get to evaluate apps without the annoying time limits that usually apply.

In Yaz$oft case I shall make an exception!

Hey Guys...I didn't participate in this MacHeist (somewhat kicking myself) but I have in past.

I think the bottom line is that the MacHeist bundle provides tremendous value. Period. I think it's a lesson learned on everyone's part and I'm sure the guys behind MacHeist will be thinking about all the things they'll do different/better next time. Let's just move on because everything that needs to be said, has been said.

If you feel burnt because you bought the bundle just for Speed Download, then look at it from a different perspective...think of it as a nice donation to a worth while charity and some extra cash to a group Mac developers who certain need the support.

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I think it was kinda lame what Yazsoft did. I'm not sure if they did or didn't settle on these terms with Macheist, but either way I felt it was a low move.

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"It seems to me what we have here is a failure to communicate." 

Contract fellas...business 101.  Did both sides screw up?  Yes.  Did either side to so with malicious intent, no.  Yazsoft likely saw this as a chance to advertise and nothing more.  Not a bait and switch.  Yes it looks and feels like that, but its a bad call not a purposeful act of deception.

Learn the lesson, stop pointing fingers, move on.

I'll be honest, I'm getting sick of this.  Either give me the upgrade for free like they should - and I'm not sending in a nice e-mail to get it - or give us ALL new apps to take the place of a piece of software that obviously has developers who, unlike CTYankee claims, did bait and switch us.

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