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UNIVAC significance?

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JPDyson

JPDyson

Moderator

3,580 posts

mackid wrote:

smarty-pants

you little Johnred lemmings make me laugh. i swear he's got near-RDF influence on this board. odd how last year we never really knew if the RDF generator made it into safe hands, or just Johnred's house.

PM me | Twitter

December 30, 2008 11:51 am
LostOne

LostOne

Automaton Tech

from Illinois
117 posts

I went through my browsers and reset them all and now mhtitan and mhstatic load fine for me.

BTW I have Camino, Firefox, Opera, Safari, and WebKit on my mac.

December 30, 2008 1:57 pm
LordZog

LordZog

Automaton Tech

264 posts

LostOne wrote:

I went through my browsers and reset them all and now mhtitan and mhstatic load fine for me.

I'm not sure how you reset browsers, but I just checked mhstatic with Firefox and it's displaying correctly.

Why do people seem to think they have the right to not be offended?

December 30, 2008 4:05 pm
johnred

johnred

Directorate

1,869 posts

jpdyson wrote:
mackid wrote:

smarty-pants

you little Johnred lemmings make me laugh. i swear he's got near-RDF influence on this board. odd how last year we never really knew if the RDF generator made it into safe hands, or just Johnred's house.

 BURNINATED!!1 (yes i know i'm playing with fire)

John Casasanta
MacHeist Director
tap tap tap chief

December 30, 2008 7:17 pm
JPDyson

JPDyson

Moderator

3,580 posts

*whistles, twiddles thumbs*

 IDENTIFICATION DIVISION.
      PROGRAM-ID. HELLO-WORLD.
      PROCEDURE DIVISION.
      MAIN.
          DISPLAY 'Hello, world.'.
          STOP RUN.

PM me | Twitter

December 30, 2008 7:26 pm
WhiteFang

WhiteFang

Dirigible Captain

from a cliff in the arctic ocean.
2,847 posts

So, JP... you getting nervous yet ? wink

(favourite paradox) This page intentionally left blank.

December 30, 2008 7:49 pm
JPDyson

JPDyson

Moderator

3,580 posts

It's sweet of you guys to think so much about me... but I'm taken.

PM me | Twitter

December 30, 2008 8:01 pm
johnred

johnred

Directorate

1,869 posts

^^^^^ COBOL'd ^^^^^

John Casasanta
MacHeist Director
tap tap tap chief

December 30, 2008 8:06 pm
JPDyson

JPDyson

Moderator

3,580 posts

johnred wrote:

COBOL'd

That's old-school. I respect that.

PM me | Twitter

December 30, 2008 8:07 pm
WhiteFang

WhiteFang

Dirigible Captain

from a cliff in the arctic ocean.
2,847 posts

Ah.. I remember COBOL... I learnt that in what's equivalent to Highschool in the US... and used it for my final project.

It's a very good reason to go... Yaaarrrrggghhhhhhhhh... tongue

(favourite paradox) This page intentionally left blank.

December 30, 2008 8:18 pm
Warbrain

Warbrain

Dirigible Captain

from Not here.
6,982 posts

Firefox 3 doesn't feel like a bad Windows port and it eats up a lot less RAM than anything else...but WebKit is just so fast that it's worth it.

Website | Twitter

December 31, 2008 3:33 am
mjweb

mjweb

Sky Pirate

from coast2coast
2,343 posts

Warbrain wrote:

Firefox 3 doesn't feel like a bad Windows port and it eats up a lot less RAM than anything else...but WebKit is just so fast that it's worth it.

Safari is insatiable. I just upgraded to 4 GB (although my MBP only addresses 3.2) and Safari and Photoshop still suck up every last byte.

www.mjweber.com | Flickr

December 31, 2008 3:58 am
Warbrain

Warbrain

Dirigible Captain

from Not here.
6,982 posts

mjweb wrote:
Warbrain wrote:

Firefox 3 doesn't feel like a bad Windows port and it eats up a lot less RAM than anything else...but WebKit is just so fast that it's worth it.

Safari is insatiable. I just upgraded to 4 GB (although my MBP only addresses 3.2) and Safari and Photoshop still suck up every last byte.

Currently eating up 150 MB for me...with 4 GB of memory.

Website | Twitter

December 31, 2008 3:59 am
kalleboo

kalleboo

Staff

from Kagoshima, Japan
265 posts

Warbrain wrote:

Firefox 3 doesn't feel like a bad Windows port

Are you kidding? They can't even get _pop up menus_ to look right. It doesn't use OS X spelling. It doesn't support things like the cmd-ctrl-D dictionary. Copying and pasting text doesn't bring along formatting and images. The list goes on. At least it seems like they fixed the horrible font rendering from FF2.

Everything is my fault

December 31, 2008 10:15 am
Warbrain

Warbrain

Dirigible Captain

from Not here.
6,982 posts

kalleboo wrote:
Warbrain wrote:

Firefox 3 doesn't feel like a bad Windows port

Are you kidding? They can't even get _pop up menus_ to look right. It doesn't use OS X spelling. It doesn't support things like the cmd-ctrl-D dictionary. Copying and pasting text doesn't bring along formatting and images. The list goes on. At least it seems like they fixed the horrible font rendering from FF2.

That's more of a holdover from a Linux port than anything.  While it finally runs natively, there are issues - but there are OS integration issues with Safari as well!

These issues are going to be fixed and Firefox will take over.

Website | Twitter

December 31, 2008 3:27 pm
WhiteFang

WhiteFang

Dirigible Captain

from a cliff in the arctic ocean.
2,847 posts

Warbrain wrote:

These issues are going to be fixed and Firefox will take over.

Yeah!

Much like every year is the year the Linux Desktop is going to take ver the world tongue

(favourite paradox) This page intentionally left blank.

December 31, 2008 3:40 pm
Warbrain

Warbrain

Dirigible Captain

from Not here.
6,982 posts

WhiteFang wrote:
Warbrain wrote:

These issues are going to be fixed and Firefox will take over.

Yeah!

Much like every year is the year the Linux Desktop is going to take ver the world tongue

I fully believe that open source software will reign....but open source operating systems?  No sir...

Website | Twitter

December 31, 2008 3:44 pm
WhiteFang

WhiteFang

Dirigible Captain

from a cliff in the arctic ocean.
2,847 posts

Warbrain wrote:

I fully believe that open source software will reign....but open source operating systems?  No sir...

That's acttually a funny comment, considering that Mac OS X is actually nothing but a glorified FreeBSD wink

See: Apple Open Source

wink

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December 31, 2008 4:05 pm
mjweb

mjweb

Sky Pirate

from coast2coast
2,343 posts

Warbrain wrote:
mjweb wrote:
Warbrain wrote:

Firefox 3 doesn't feel like a bad Windows port and it eats up a lot less RAM than anything else...but WebKit is just so fast that it's worth it.

Safari is insatiable. I just upgraded to 4 GB (although my MBP only addresses 3.2) and Safari and Photoshop still suck up every last byte.

Currently eating up 150 MB for me...with 4 GB of memory.

605 MB for me. Haven't rebooted in 4 days but sometimes I have two browser windows and 8 tabs running simultaneously.

www.mjweber.com | Flickr

December 31, 2008 4:40 pm
Warbrain

Warbrain

Dirigible Captain

from Not here.
6,982 posts

WhiteFang wrote:
Warbrain wrote:

I fully believe that open source software will reign....but open source operating systems?  No sir...

That's acttually a funny comment, considering that Mac OS X is actually nothing but a glorified FreeBSD wink

See: Apple Open Source

wink

No, it's more than that - you can't say that it is nothing but a glorified FreeBSD.  There's more to OS X than just the open source base that takes away from the BSD.  There is no way you could call Mac OS X open source.

I'm talking specifically about Linux and everything else that's *nix.  It will always be a development mess and will never be mainstreamed.  Open source software, however, has a design and a purpose and it's all very concrete, allowing for it to thrive.

Website | Twitter

December 31, 2008 4:46 pm
BigMark

BigMark

Sky Pirate

from Kent, UK.
1,553 posts

mjweb wrote:
Warbrain wrote:
mjweb wrote:

Safari is insatiable. I just upgraded to 4 GB (although my MBP only addresses 3.2) and Safari and Photoshop still suck up every last byte.

Currently eating up 150 MB for me...with 4 GB of memory.

605 MB for me. Haven't rebooted in 4 days but sometimes I have two browser windows and 8 tabs running simultaneously.

How do you find this info?

Mark.

December 31, 2008 5:36 pm
newsdork

newsdork

Sky Pirate

from Tennessee
1,477 posts

BigMark wrote:
mjweb wrote:
Warbrain wrote:

Currently eating up 150 MB for me...with 4 GB of memory.

605 MB for me. Haven't rebooted in 4 days but sometimes I have two browser windows and 8 tabs running simultaneously.

How do you find this info?

Mark.

Run Activity Monitor. It'll show how much memory each process is using, plus a whole bunch of other info. Great little program. Good for shutting down stubborn programs as well.

Sometimes I feel so blue
It makes me twitter.

December 31, 2008 5:45 pm
Warbrain

Warbrain

Dirigible Captain

from Not here.
6,982 posts

I use a widget called iStat pro.

Website | Twitter

December 31, 2008 5:47 pm
Adrammelech

Adrammelech

Big Game Hunter

from Gallifrey
626 posts

Warbrain wrote:

I use a widget called iStat pro.

+1

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December 31, 2008 5:54 pm
BigMark

BigMark

Sky Pirate

from Kent, UK.
1,553 posts

Warbrain wrote:

I use a widget called iStat pro.

and I have that installed already! 
<would insert slapping forehead emoticon here if I had one>

December 31, 2008 6:09 pm
BigMark

BigMark

Sky Pirate

from Kent, UK.
1,553 posts

Just ran and Safari is taking up..... 783.42MB of Memory!!!!

Can you tell I don't reboot very often??? smile

EDIT: After a reboot 54.07Mb

Mark.

December 31, 2008 6:12 pm
mjweb

mjweb

Sky Pirate

from coast2coast
2,343 posts

BigMark wrote:

Just ran and Safari is taking up..... 783.42MB of Memory!!!!

You win!

www.mjweber.com | Flickr

December 31, 2008 6:48 pm
JPDyson

JPDyson

Moderator

3,580 posts

dayslater21 wrote:

mhstatic just changed, it shows a black screen with this

s3[DOT]amazonaws[DOT]com[SLASH]macheist[SLASH]static[DOT]jpg

in the center....we are getting soooo close, i can feel it


EDIT- Oh, and i dont know if this is signifigant but try going to anything dot mhstatic dot com...its under construction with no link to the domain provider...strange...

MHstatic has shown that for a while now... that's not a change at all.

PM me | Twitter

December 31, 2008 8:04 pm
WhiteFang

WhiteFang

Dirigible Captain

from a cliff in the arctic ocean.
2,847 posts

From top:

Processes:  135 total, 5 running, 10 stuck, 120 sleeping... 693 threads                                                                                                             02:23:20
Load Avg:  0.08,  0.09,  0.08    CPU usage:  0.93% user,  2.48% sys, 96.59% idle
SharedLibs: num =   18, resident =   90M code, 2328K data, 5196K linkedit.
MemRegions: num = 54293, resident = 2791M +  131M private, 1003M shared.
PhysMem: 1069M wired, 6958M active,  819M inactive, 8862M used, 5474M free.
VM: 24G + 371M   1223329(0) pageins, 0(0) pageouts

  PID COMMAND      %CPU   TIME   #TH #PRTS #MREGS RPRVT  RSHRD  RSIZE  VSIZE
  254 Safari       0.1% 12:22:30  28   765- 21868 1378M-  221M  1614M- 2341M-

That's 2.3GB resident, 221MB private and 1.6GB shared (shared libraries that other apps have open as well).

That's a lot smile

Oh.. @warbrain: In my last work, we had ~40 FreeBSD and Linux servers, ~10 Solaris Servers, 2 Mac OS X Servers and 4 Windows Servers. 10 Windows Workstations, 2 Mac OS X Workstations, 2 Solaris Workstations and ~10 Linux Workstations.

I'd say it's a bit even there (although I'll be the first to admit it's not typical for the world in general wink)

(favourite paradox) This page intentionally left blank.

January 1, 2009 2:27 am
Warbrain

Warbrain

Dirigible Captain

from Not here.
6,982 posts

WhiteFang wrote:

From top:

Processes:  135 total, 5 running, 10 stuck, 120 sleeping... 693 threads                                                                                                             02:23:20
Load Avg:  0.08,  0.09,  0.08    CPU usage:  0.93% user,  2.48% sys, 96.59% idle
SharedLibs: num =   18, resident =   90M code, 2328K data, 5196K linkedit.
MemRegions: num = 54293, resident = 2791M +  131M private, 1003M shared.
PhysMem: 1069M wired, 6958M active,  819M inactive, 8862M used, 5474M free.
VM: 24G + 371M   1223329(0) pageins, 0(0) pageouts

  PID COMMAND      %CPU   TIME   #TH #PRTS #MREGS RPRVT  RSHRD  RSIZE  VSIZE
  254 Safari       0.1% 12:22:30  28   765- 21868 1378M-  221M  1614M- 2341M-

That's 2.3GB resident, 221MB private and 1.6GB shared (shared libraries that other apps have open as well).

That's a lot smile

Oh.. @warbrain: In my last work, we had ~40 FreeBSD and Linux servers, ~10 Solaris Servers, 2 Mac OS X Servers and 4 Windows Servers. 10 Windows Workstations, 2 Mac OS X Workstations, 2 Solaris Workstations and ~10 Linux Workstations.

I'd say it's a bit even there (although I'll be the first to admit it's not typical for the world in general wink)

It's not typical and won't be.  It's more likely that something like OS X will take over that has some open source roots but is so far removed from it that people don't even realize it.

Website | Twitter

January 1, 2009 2:57 am
JPDyson

JPDyson

Moderator

3,580 posts

I know more than one Unix Sys-Admin Mac user. They like the simplicity of it away from work, with the availability of the Unix underpinnings when you need/want them. It's a great OS for everybody.

PM me | Twitter

January 1, 2009 3:13 am
Warbrain

Warbrain

Dirigible Captain

from Not here.
6,982 posts

jpdyson wrote:

I know more than one Unix Sys-Admin Mac user. They like the simplicity of it away from work, with the availability of the Unix underpinnings when you need/want them. It's a great OS for everybody.

Of course it is!  Why else would we be here?  OS X is *the* example of how *nix-based  operating systems need to work - a lot of the geeky stuff hidden while still remaining accessible.

Website | Twitter

January 1, 2009 3:43 am
LegosJedi

LegosJedi

Gearhead

73 posts

A recommendation: Use a web browser called Stainless. It'll give you some of the same functionality as Chrome (releasing memory when a tab/window is closed), as well as being built upon the same WebKit frameworks.

January 1, 2009 5:39 am
Warbrain

Warbrain

Dirigible Captain

from Not here.
6,982 posts

LegosJedi wrote:

A recommendation: Use a web browser called Stainless. It'll give you some of the same functionality as Chrome (releasing memory when a tab/window is closed), as well as being built upon the same WebKit frameworks.

I'm using it right now...it's fast.  And nice.

Website | Twitter

January 1, 2009 7:17 am
mjweb

mjweb

Sky Pirate

from coast2coast
2,343 posts

I'm using "Tin". lol

www.mjweber.com | Flickr

January 1, 2009 7:48 am
bensor

bensor

Automaton Tech

from Colorado
222 posts

mjweb wrote:

I'm using "Tin". lol

And I'm using "Aluminium". lol

January 1, 2009 10:07 am
99

99

Automaton Tech

from lacolhost
115 posts

BigMark wrote:

Just ran and Safari is taking up..... 783.42MB of Memory!!!!

Can you tell I don't reboot very often??? smile

EDIT: After a reboot 54.07Mb

Mark.

A reboot is not really necessary, just relaunch the application.

#include <unistd.h>
#include <netinet/in.h>
void main(){int p=ntohl(0x6E696E65);int q[]={p,ntohl(0x7479),p,0xA};write(1,&q,0x10);}

January 1, 2009 11:56 am
newsdork

newsdork

Sky Pirate

from Tennessee
1,477 posts

bensor wrote:
mjweb wrote:

I'm using "Tin". lol

And I'm using "Aluminium". lol

I'm using a stubby crayon and some graph paper. All your avatars are now blue boxes.

Sometimes I feel so blue
It makes me twitter.

January 2, 2009 1:42 am
bensor

bensor

Automaton Tech

from Colorado
222 posts

newsdork wrote:
bensor wrote:
mjweb wrote:

I'm using "Tin". lol

And I'm using "Aluminium". lol

I'm using a stubby crayon and some graph paper. All your avatars are now blue boxes.

LOL!

January 2, 2009 1:52 am
JPDyson

JPDyson

Moderator

3,580 posts

Stainless is faaaaaaaaaast. Of course, it doesn't have any features. At all.

PM me | Twitter

January 2, 2009 1:54 am
herky140

herky140

Big Game Hunter

from the future
717 posts

This thread has gone pleasantly off course lol
I should download some variant of Chrome... I can't be called a true geek until I do.

Borange. borange.

January 2, 2009 4:23 am
kalleboo

kalleboo

Staff

from Kagoshima, Japan
265 posts

Warbrain wrote:

These issues are going to be fixed and Firefox will take over.

Firefox will never take over as long as it remains an optional download. Most people won't replace the default browser. Plus it's getting more competition even in the open source arena with Chrome. Google is going to push Chrome hard as a Net-PC style browser. Think a minimal linux distro with only google chrome, shipping by default in millions of super-cheap netbooks.

Everything is my fault

January 2, 2009 11:30 am
rampancy

rampancy

Moderator

from Denial.
3,890 posts

It's worth noting that Stainless was never intended to be used as a front-line primary browser; the developers are upfront in stating that Stainless is currently a tech-demo.

Marathon Forever.
AppShelf: MacHeist 3 Loot
AppShelf: nanoBundle 1
Check Reciept Page for nanoBundle 2 AppShelf Files.

January 2, 2009 2:17 pm
rampancy

rampancy

Moderator

from Denial.
3,890 posts

Warbrain wrote:
kalleboo wrote:

Are you kidding? They can't even get _pop up menus_ to look right. It doesn't use OS X spelling. It doesn't support things like the cmd-ctrl-D dictionary. Copying and pasting text doesn't bring along formatting and images. The list goes on. At least it seems like they fixed the horrible font rendering from FF2.

That's more of a holdover from a Linux port than anything.  While it finally runs natively, there are issues - but there are OS integration issues with Safari as well!

These issues are going to be fixed and Firefox will take over.

No. Sorry Warbrain, but that is just completely, patently false.

The myriad UI issues and idiosyncrasies that are endemic to Firefox on the Mac are tied into the Mozilla Foundation's decision to use XUL as the basis for its implementation of the Gecko engine. In fact, they're a necessity as XUL is what allows Firefox to have an extensible infrastructure supporting themes and plug-ins. Therefore, by its very nature, Firefox simply will not have a thoroughly native Mac UI fully supporting and leveraging Mac UI elements and technologies. 

In fact, on their project documentation pages they're quite happy with this - the point of using XUL was to share UI code between Linux (Gtk), Windows, and the Mac, the rationale being that instead of exerting the effort to create a custom UI for each platform, they could standardize a customizable UI across all three. (Because hey, it worked for Microsoft back in the early 90's when they decided to put a Windows UI on a Mac app for Word 6...right?)

In the words of the one of the Camino developers:

smorgan wrote:

What it means for Firefox to be Cocoa based has been widely misunderstood. Essentially three (largely unrelated) things happened:
- Firefox now skins form widgets on pages to look like OS X widgets, just as Camino always has. Neither browser uses actual Cocoa controls for web content (nor, for that matter, does WebKit).
- Firefox uses Cocoa APIs rather than Carbon APIs for most of its integration with the OS--things like converting between OS X's event model and Gecko's, menu creation, etc.
- Firefox got a new default theme that better matches the Leopard look.

What did *not* happen, but many people are interpreting "Cocoa Firefox" to mean, is that the browser chrome (everything that isn't the web page) is now using standard Cocoa controls. Firefox still uses XUL for all of its chrome. The toolbar isn't an NSToolbar, the URL bar isn't an NSTextField, the search bar isn't an NSSearchField, the bookmark manager isn't NSOutlineView or NSTableView based, context menus aren't NSMenus, etc. As a result, lots of things--some subtle, some less so--still do not behave the way they would be in any other OS X application, just as was the case in Firefox 2.

Beyond skinning form controls and differently, and some specific targeted fixes like emulating most of the Leopard window look, there's nothing more Mac-like about Firefox 3, which is why it still doesn't feel that way. Carbon vs. Cocoa is an implementation detail, not a look-and-feel issue, and not at all related to what people generally mean when they say "native".

This is why I use Camino and not Firefox - because a Mac-targeted, Mac-native UI is one of their goals. I appreciate how the Firefox team went the extra mile to provide a better-looking theme, but it doesn't make up for the UI inconsistencies which still mar Firefox.

And yes, you could easily ask "why bother" - indeed, many Mac users, both here and across the Mac web, find Firefox's trademark flexibility more than worth the price paid in terms of UI consistency. However, in my opinion, attention to the design of the UI and its consistency with established norms is one of the reasons why the Mac delivers a superior user experience - between a word processor, spreadsheet, email app, personal organizer, and a web browser, you can and should expect interface conventions to remain constant and consistent. That's all the more important in an app as front and centre as a web browser (and it's why Apple's own flagrantly hypocritical violations of its own HIG set a ridiculous precedent).

Marathon Forever.
AppShelf: MacHeist 3 Loot
AppShelf: nanoBundle 1
Check Reciept Page for nanoBundle 2 AppShelf Files.

January 2, 2009 2:53 pm
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