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An open letter to Mac developers

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bdegrande

bdegrande

Sky Pirate

from Hoboken, NJ
1,241 posts

As one who buys other bundles, notably the MacUpdate ones, I really like the no repeats policy. There have been several bundles on the market where I have owned three or four of the top apps, making the bundle a very poor value for me.

I agree that posting the policy in the forum might not reach its intended audience, I think direct emails to developers and/or Twitter would be more useful.

I think that John has been pretty fair to other bundles, there is plenty of discussion here about them, and any criticism has been specifically pointed at specific bundle sellers, not bundles in general.

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August 17, 2009 11:52 pm
blue_fireball_eater

blue_fireball_eater

Moderator

from Nashville
2,757 posts

Furthermore, MacHeist really is about marketing, and apps that have not been in a bundle before need the marketing more than others.

avatar is from Penfield & Jasper, 1954

August 18, 2009 2:43 am
beiju

beiju

Automaton Tech

from Lacaoosa
139 posts

I’m not sure I like this as a policy, more like a guideline. I think apps that a large portion of the audience (or core audience, since the numbers for that might be radically different) is likely to have should be off limits. However, those in bundles, which shall remain nameless because I can't remember the name, that sell 7 copies should have a second chance.

Major upgrades (such as 1Password 3… please…) should also be eligible, but probably a bit lower down on the food chain.

"This must be Thursday. I could never get the hang of Thursdays"
-Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

August 22, 2009 3:39 am
jrhorn424

jrhorn424

Tinkerer

from Fairfax, VA
11 posts

Anyone else notice that WriteRoom was in one or two other bundles in the last year or so? I have three serials for it, and I try to never buy software outside of bundles.

Incidentally, I do recall recently getting my second serial from a bundle. Don't recall the name at the moment. It included Iris, TaskPaper, Flux, and some other cool apps.

My third serial was, of course, the nanoBundle. So it seems a violation of the no-repeat policy. Unless nanoBundles don't count. I'm pretty ambivalent about repeats. When MacHeist asked me how much I would have paid for the nanoBundle, I said 15 bucks. Why so low? I already have most of the apps. I don't buy bundles when I don't get something I value, but does that mean repeats *shouldn't* be included? I dunno.

J. Horn
PhD Student in Economics
George Mason University
Follow me @jrhorn424

November 11, 2009 8:55 pm
rampancy

rampancy

Moderator

from Denial.
3,889 posts

jrhorn424 wrote:

Anyone else notice that WriteRoom was in one or two other bundles in the last year or so? I have three serials for it, and I try to never buy software outside of bundles.

Incidentally, I do recall recently getting my second serial from a bundle. Don't recall the name at the moment. It included Iris, TaskPaper, Flux, and some other cool apps.

My third serial was, of course, the nanoBundle. So it seems a violation of the no-repeat policy. Unless nanoBundles don't count. I'm pretty ambivalent about repeats. When MacHeist asked me how much I would have paid for the nanoBundle, I said 15 bucks. Why so low? I already have most of the apps. I don't buy bundles when I don't get something I value, but does that mean repeats *shouldn't* be included? I dunno.

The general no-repeats policy often bandied about here refers to the full MacHeist bundles featured during the actual MacHeist seasons. Thus, MH1, 2, and 3 are all quite different from each other in terms of composition. The "mid-term" or "off-season" activities don't seem to count; for example, between MH2 and Mh3 there was a MacHeist mini bundle that featured Parallels, even though Parallels itself had just been offered during MUPromo's own Parallels Bundle earlier that same year.

We'll also likely see loot apps from last year graduate to be bundle apps for MH4. The new DEVONThink 2.0 comes to mind.

Marathon Forever.
AppShelf: MacHeist 3 Loot
AppShelf: nanoBundle 1
Check Reciept Page for nanoBundle 2 AppShelf Files.

November 11, 2009 9:14 pm
kcwookie

kcwookie

Tinkerer

from Kansas City
49 posts

I like the policy. Some of the bundles are getting real stale. I don't have the money to buy bundles for one app. Given the policy, I'm really looking forward to MacHeist 4.

Never ask a person what computer they use. If they use a Mac, they will tell you, otherwise why shame them.

November 12, 2009 9:23 pm
DvdOwens

DvdOwens

Tinkerer

18 posts

Reasonable and fair.

November 13, 2009 12:40 am
Wacholderpolka

Wacholderpolka

Automaton Tech

from Germany
170 posts

Many of the software of macheist bundles was also sold in other bundles and special discount promotions. This policy only looks to the past, not the future.

For my customer point of view, i don't see a benefit here.

If there is an application, which i really would like to see in a MH bundle, i really don't care, if it was in another bundle some month ago or in the actual one finger discount.

For me, the decision of buy/don't buy is simply done by looking at the apps in the bundle regarding quality/usability/idea/productivity/price. That's it.

Visit the best german Mac support forum

November 13, 2009 11:59 am
blue_fireball_eater

blue_fireball_eater

Moderator

from Nashville
2,757 posts

Wacholderpolka wrote:

Many of the software of macheist bundles was also sold in other bundles and special discount promotions. This policy only looks to the past, not the future.

For my customer point of view, i don't see a benefit here.

If there is an application, which i really would like to see in a MH bundle, i really don't care, if it was in another bundle some month ago or in the actual one finger discount.

For me, the decision of buy/don't buy is simply done by looking at the apps in the bundle regarding quality/usability/idea/productivity/price. That's it.

You are probably in the minority here. The rest of us have many duplicate licenses of frequently bundled apps, and it definitely decreases the value of the bundle for you if you have licenses to even a few of the apps.

avatar is from Penfield & Jasper, 1954

November 13, 2009 1:30 pm
Wacholderpolka

Wacholderpolka

Automaton Tech

from Germany
170 posts

blue_fireball_eater wrote:
Wacholderpolka wrote:

For me, the decision of buy/don't buy is simply done by looking at the apps in the bundle regarding quality/usability/idea/productivity/price. That's it.

You are probably in the minority here. The rest of us have many duplicate licenses of frequently bundled apps, and it definitely decreases the value of the bundle for you if you have licenses to even a few of the apps.

Ah, ok, this is something, that reduces the bundle value, you are right.

I only bought three bundles in total, so there is not much overlapping.

The question is, if enough apps can be found, that where never bundled in the past. For me, this is still a too restrict limitation.

WP

Visit the best german Mac support forum

November 13, 2009 3:15 pm
johnred

johnred

Directorate

1,869 posts

A request...

It'd be incredibly awesome (and I'd be sure to return the favor) if somebody were to maintain a big list of all known bundles (ours included) as a thread here. I know there's some scattered info in our forums, but it'd be great to have a definitive list.

If I can be ridiculously picky, the list would be chronologically ordered and contain one bundle per post. The first line would be the bundle name in bold. And the rest would have the apps, mentioning any special-cases like bonus apps, etc.

We should keep this thread clean and not have other posts in it.

After seeing how poorly all the recent competing bundles have been doing, we're going to be as adamant as ever about enforcing our no repeats policy.

Maybe a good way to start this off would be to have people start listing bundles that they've known of and the date they occurred ("date" can be as simple as "Q3 '08"). With a little bit of help from everybody, we can ensure that MacHeist 4 will be the best bundle ever.

Thanks in advance.

John Casasanta
MacHeist Director
tap tap tap chief

December 12, 2009 6:38 pm
ciaravino

ciaravino

Automaton Tech

439 posts

How would it get to be chronological if for instance someone posted one, then someone posted a bundle that happened earlier, but the post was after?

December 12, 2009 6:45 pm
blue_fireball_eater

blue_fireball_eater

Moderator

from Nashville
2,757 posts

ciaravino wrote:

How would it get to be chronological if for instance someone posted one, then someone posted a bundle that happened earlier, but the post was after?

By keeping the first post updated.

avatar is from Penfield & Jasper, 1954

December 13, 2009 2:13 am
izdale

izdale

Sky Pirate

from the U.S.
1,768 posts

blue_fireball_eater wrote:
ciaravino wrote:

How would it get to be chronological if for instance someone posted one, then someone posted a bundle that happened earlier, but the post was after?

By keeping the first post updated.

He asked for only one bundle per post, so it's solved by having the same person post all of the bundles, and I can re-order them if necessary. You can PM me or Miah if you see anything missing.

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December 13, 2009 3:15 am
ciaravino

ciaravino

Automaton Tech

439 posts

Ah, okay.

December 13, 2009 3:26 am
JackV

JackV

Sky Pirate

from Germany
1,072 posts

@izdale and miah: thanks for the work guys.

@John: I am impressed by the foresight regarding the no-repeat rule. It makes the MH bundle a lot stronger and I am sure, you´ll have a reasonable price point as well.

I write about Juice on Entsafter.co

December 13, 2009 10:11 pm
MacGizmo

MacGizmo

Automaton Tech

from In your closet
318 posts

I don't think this forum post is going to accomplish the greater goal. How many developers are going to come in here to read this if they don't even know about MacHeist to begin with.

I would suggest a formal press-release be sent to all the Mac outlets; announce that there will be a MacHeist 4, and then go into the fact that you're focusing on totally new apps that haven't already been bundled somewhere else.

The Graphic Mac for all things Apple, Adobe, Design and the Internet.

December 14, 2009 4:05 am
hdroadking68

hdroadking68

Tinkerer

from The Pit of Dispair
38 posts

John, I'm a fan of your no repeat policy. Nothing burns me more when I'm out bundle shopping (yes I do bundle shop), and find that the 'newest' bundle has 4 software titles that I've gotten elsewhere. I can always count on you an your crew coming up with an original bundle of titles that I don't have -- at an exceptional price.

Jack of all trades. Master of none.

December 15, 2009 4:42 am
Miah

Miah

Moderator

3,692 posts

hdroadking68 wrote:

John, I'm a fan of your no repeat policy. Nothing burns me more when I'm out bundle shopping (yes I do bundle shop), and find that the 'newest' bundle has 4 software titles that I've gotten elsewhere.

I rather like it because it's sort of a boost to other bundles. People aren't going to hold out on one because they think it might be in a bundle here. Otherwise there are a few apps that I would have expected to show up in a future MH bundle.

䷟䷽䷏䷁ — Dying of the Light.

December 15, 2009 8:32 am

bor003

Automaton Tech

from A
232 posts

Just to say: I think that no repeat is a strange policy to have.. Not repeating the whole bundle is good, not repeating more then two apps is still good, but sometimes you want an app that you missed. Not many people have every app from every mission and every bundle.
Would repeats include 1PW2 --> 1PW3? I would like 1PW3 as its got a lot of cool things but just as they did 1PW2 means they cannot put a whole new version? Take Tweetie on the iPhone. Tweetie 1 = and app. Tweetie 2 was so different that it was another app.

December 17, 2009 10:23 pm
f16332

f16332

Sky Pirate

1,135 posts

bor003 wrote:

Just to say: I think that no repeat is a strange policy to have.. Not repeating the whole bundle is good, not repeating more then two apps is still good, but sometimes you want an app that you missed. Not many people have every app from every mission and every bundle.
Would repeats include 1PW2 --> 1PW3? I would like 1PW3 as its got a lot of cool things but just as they did 1PW2 means they cannot put a whole new version? Take Tweetie on the iPhone. Tweetie 1 = and app. Tweetie 2 was so different that it was another app.

1Password 2 was a promotion on last years giving tree. It was not part of a bundle... It is possible to get 1Password 3 in a bundle of loot this time around too. Just like we had Shovebox in the loot and NanoBundle.

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December 17, 2009 10:36 pm
izdale

izdale

Sky Pirate

from the U.S.
1,768 posts

1Password 2 was in the Macheist 2 bundle.

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December 17, 2009 10:57 pm
f16332

f16332

Sky Pirate

1,135 posts

izdale wrote:

1Password 2 was in the Macheist 2 bundle.

Really... I did not know that... But that was version 2 and besides maybe 1Password 3 will be in the Giving Tree or Loot.

DropBox Referral: 2.25GB FreeSpace

December 17, 2009 11:13 pm
davekriss

davekriss

Gearhead

69 posts

I think it's a great policy, johnred.  Keep making MacHeist awesome (what else would it be)!

December 18, 2009 3:29 am
izdale

izdale

Sky Pirate

from the U.S.
1,768 posts

f16332 wrote:
izdale wrote:

1Password 2 was in the Macheist 2 bundle.

Really... I did not know that... But that was version 2 and besides maybe 1Password 3 will be in the Giving Tree or Loot.

Except that there won't be a giving tree this year, and it was in last year's giving tree anyway.

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December 18, 2009 4:35 am
mikeyfindlay

mikeyfindlay

Sky Pirate

from Northern California
1,091 posts

izdale wrote:

Except that there won't be a giving tree this year...

How do you know this?

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Gear: 15" MacBook Pro 2012, iPad Air, iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 4G, iPod Nano 6G

December 18, 2009 7:50 am
JackV

JackV

Sky Pirate

from Germany
1,072 posts

mikeyfindlay wrote:
izdale wrote:

Except that there won't be a giving tree this year...

How do you know this?

Maybe he made a trip to Delphi? ..... NOT!

I write about Juice on Entsafter.co

December 18, 2009 8:17 am
izdale

izdale

Sky Pirate

from the U.S.
1,768 posts

mikeyfindlay wrote:
izdale wrote:

Except that there won't be a giving tree this year...

How do you know this?

http://www.macheist.com/forums/viewtopi … 16#p351616

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December 18, 2009 1:37 pm
dAlen

dAlen

Tinkerer

44 posts

johnred wrote:

Maybe a good way to start this off would be to have people start listing bundles that they've known of and the date they occurred ("date" can be as simple as "Q3 '08"). With a little bit of help from everybody, we can ensure that MacHeist 4 will be the best bundle ever.

Thanks in advance.

Or ask for cool apps that havent been in bundles...
[i.e., Zbrush - after Kinemac, Im not so sure if this would be unrealistic]

Peace

dAlen

March 5, 2010 2:02 pm
kblessinggr

kblessinggr

Automaton Tech

from Grand Rapids, Michigan
176 posts

Would it not make more sense to apply No-Repeat to "Have not sold in a bundle the last 6 months [or 12 months]", cuz the same software title could become completely different exceptional with each major version.

Hrm just noticed the dates of posts 2 above mine.

March 5, 2010 6:46 pm
blue_fireball_eater

blue_fireball_eater

Moderator

from Nashville
2,757 posts

kblessinggr wrote:

Would it not make more sense to apply No-Repeat to "Have not sold in a bundle the last 6 months [or 12 months]", cuz the same software title could become completely different exceptional with each major version.

I get so tired of seeing parallels bundles just before and after every major release. Long live the no-repeat policy!

In any case, it only applies to apps in the main bundle and not to the Loot or Bonus apps.

avatar is from Penfield & Jasper, 1954

March 5, 2010 7:43 pm
manikje

manikje

Automaton Tech

126 posts

I'm too lazy to read this entire thread, but does the no-repeat policy not apply to Rapidweaver? I'm looking at my Mupromo december '07 bundle receipt and.... well, guess?
Am I to believe that the only one allowed to break MacHeist's rules is MacHeist itself?

Rotting mushroom, by popular request.
"And those of little faith chose orange, and Jebediah told them: "Let green be chosen and God's will be done. For green to God is more pleasing than either violet or blue."
-  Jonah 3:12-14

March 5, 2010 7:58 pm
Molnies

Molnies

Big Game Hunter

from Sweden
527 posts

Manikje, you should have at least read the post directly above your own. The no-repeat policy does not include nanoBundles or Loot — just the annual MacHeist bundles.

Think Purple.

March 5, 2010 8:13 pm
anosou

anosou

Tinkerer

from Sweden
31 posts

manikje wrote:

I'm too lazy to read this entire thread, but does the no-repeat policy not apply to Rapidweaver? I'm looking at my Mupromo december '07 bundle receipt and.... well, guess?
Am I to believe that the only one allowed to break MacHeist's rules is MacHeist itself?

The NanoBundle 2 is not the same as MacHeist 4. The annual bundles are different afaik.

March 5, 2010 8:13 pm
kblessinggr

kblessinggr

Automaton Tech

from Grand Rapids, Michigan
176 posts

manikje wrote:

I'm too lazy to read this entire thread, but does the no-repeat policy not apply to Rapidweaver? I'm looking at my Mupromo december '07 bundle receipt and.... well, guess?
Am I to believe that the only one allowed to break MacHeist's rules is MacHeist itself?

Its because you didn't read the whole thread that you might have missed some of the time-based restriction cuz back in 07 would have been a drastically different RW version.

March 5, 2010 8:15 pm
Chrontius

Chrontius

Tinkerer

10 posts

Speaking of exceptions, I'm hoping one is made for Overflow - perhaps being put into an off-season thing sometime in the future.  I have a copy through MyDreamApp, and it really burned my *** when it auto-updated from 1.x registered to 1.5 shareware and all the old version installers had been pulled from download sites.  I don't know how I missed it last go-round, but I somehow pulled it off.

March 15, 2010 7:15 pm
Timi

Timi

Moderator

from New York
1,391 posts

We've seen Overflow almost every year as loot.  Whether or not it returns is above my level.
If you do really love an app, you should consider buying it.

March 15, 2010 8:10 pm
mactvision

mactvision

Urchin

from Durham, NC
4 posts

Great. Glad I came across this. Many thanks for the post!

Steve Carnagy, Support Specialist
MacTVision Technologies
Email: steve@onlinetvmac.com
Visit us at: www.onlinetvmac.com

January 18, 2011 7:46 pm
RfokusnG

RfokusnG

Gearhead

60 posts

Miah wrote:
hdroadking68 wrote:

John, I'm a fan of your no repeat policy. Nothing burns me more when I'm out bundle shopping (yes I do bundle shop), and find that the 'newest' bundle has 4 software titles that I've gotten elsewhere.

I rather like it because it's sort of a boost to other bundles. People aren't going to hold out on one because they think it might be in a bundle here. Otherwise there are a few apps that I would have expected to show up in a future MH bundle.

disney's "we own your dreams and alien abduction experience" policy = ridiculous
no repeats = reasonable as quoted above

however, "annual" bundles - really?  it seems like macheist 3 was forever ago  -- how long can/should hungry developers wait for the opportunity to participate in a macheist?
just wondering

You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them.
---Ray Bradbury

January 19, 2011 3:11 am
epifany

epifany

Big Game Hunter

from Dallas, Texas
554 posts

johnred wrote:

So while there are the various memes and myths that constantly get propagated about bundles, I'm going to make it 100% clear that we don't include repeats of other software in our annual bundles and this means both our past bundles and any other bundles. If you're a Mac developer and you consider your software to be top-notch, you're forfeiting your chances to be included in a future MacHeist bundle if you include your software in another promotion.
[/i]

Johnred,
I completely understand your point to bring unique products to us.  I appreciate the desire to make Macheist standout and be set apart from the other wannabe's.  However, I miss MacHeist and the fun that came through the collaboration on various puzzles.  I've seen just about every decent app available in a bundle at one time or another (aside from Panic and Equinox).   Any chance we could see a change in approach on this position from Macheist?

Thanks for the great adventures,
-E

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www.ORGANICPIXELS.net

January 20, 2011 1:45 pm

jj56

Urchin

from Welliwood
3 posts

I'll keep this in mind.

This/is/a/Hai/ku.
Hai/ku/are/en/joy/a/ble.
No/Drop/box/link/here.
(Seriously, does anyone ever use your dropbox link? Didn't think so.)

February 17, 2011 4:04 am
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