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Actually, I can be that general, and I was. However, my counterpoint was against another generalization as well. DB is stating that *ALL* other Independant Developers have been hurt by this singular, specific situation. They have not. They think that having this kind of promotion (which was 'free' for the developers from the initial financial requirements to set up and maintain. All they had to do in that regard was provide the final product) will hurt them.

You seem to mis-understand my reference. We could argue until we are blue in the face about nothing being free. What I failed to do was to stress that the 'free' promotion and advertising was 'free' from the traditional financial or monetary costs of producing, and promoting the products, as that was the service that the Directorate essentially provided.

However, if you percieve a loss in value of the product (or shareware in general) from such a promotion, than you will instinctively add a cost that is monetary in nature based on the perceived value of the promotion versus the perceived value of the product being sold. the question then becomes "Was the overall cost of the promotion worth the overall gain in sales/profit/revenue?"

So far, every developer that has partaken of the MacHeist 'experience' shall we say, has been quite happy with the results. Agreed, not all have spoken, but those that have have seen what they perceive as positive results.

The DB site is a perspective from someone who declined at the opportunity and now is trying to make it seem like it was the correct decision and should be the correct decision for all Independant developers (DBs generalization).

In truth, for his specific situation, the MacHeist scenario may simply not have been a good deal. But that is one specific developer, not the entire general populace like it seems the DB posting is trying to imply.

I was simply trying to show that, when you play with numbers, you can make the outcome look good or bad depending on what you show and what you invent. Both of which were techniques used in the DB post.

In essence, I wanted to be the devil's advocate as I felt the DB post was unjustly trying to accuse the Directorate of scamming people when it used numbers it simply made up to fill the gaps and prove their point. Lies, damn lies, and statistics. I'm sure many have heard the phrase before.

Esseintially correct, but still flawed in execution. Yes, in a way the promotion is not 'free' because they have lowered their price of their product. And assuming the only benefit or gain was a flat fee, yes, there is a disproportionate cost in the end for this promotion. But using purely a monetary figure to describe the benefit leaves out other less-tangible things such as exposure and upgrades profit potential and expanded user base. Brand loyalty for those that have just discovered the product and love it as they love their Macs. These cannot be quantified easily.

Add in the fact that half the numbers on the DB post are mere speculation, one can easily fabricate number to make the Directorate look like greedy bastards or Saints. We can't know those numbers so DB speculated and worked the numbers to their advantage. Just as I did towards the Directorate.

Is marketing moral (not morale)? Not usually. I think marketing is typically trying to convince us to buy stuff we don't need in search of the almighty dollar. It is certainly not something exclusive to a scenario such as MacHeist. But then again, moral marketing rarely involves donations to charity so adding that aspect improves the morals a bit above traditional marketing.

That said, the objectives of MacHeist was to Promote Independant Mac Developers and ultimately increase sales (thus increasing profits). I believe they have accomplished that (as is a fine Macintosh tradition) with style.

And once again, to the Macheist team, I tip my hat on a job well done.

Strongblade!

I think we're at a stage now where people are so resentful of MacHeist/MDA that The Directorate could be working for free and everyone would still find some reason to slag them.

Marathon Forever.
AppShelf: MacHeist 3 Loot
AppShelf: nanoBundle 1
Check Reciept Page for nanoBundle 2 AppShelf Files.

Being a developer myself I can see both sides of the arguments on this whole deal. But at the end of the day if the developers and macheist reached an agreement...be it good or bad for some or all, then you have to conclude everyone is happy and we should be thankful for the deals they put in place.

After all no developer was forced to agree to anything and we are certainly not forced to buy it. And in all likely hood the developers will get a better deal in the end because I know for sure there are some apps that I will pay for future upgrades on, but probably would not of brought on 'faith' at full price to begin with.

My web site
http://www.uibuzz.com

So do I. And I'm not a developer.

Apparently there are some people that can indeed look at this issue with some calm.

See Deep Thought's blog for a well balanced attitude: http://www.dtgeeks.com/blogs/comment/mu … _macheist/

Like in so many things, future will tell.

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Extra note: "I don't think I've ever been a part of a true disaster before."

@valente.mac

An excellent article that pretty much sums up my feeling on it all.

If someone gave me the choice of giving $5 to an independent developer or a big software house with plenty of backers I know which one I'd choose. Large software houses can afford to ram the advertising and 'buy this' mentality to the masses, but the independent developer does not have that option normally and most developers I know start with one goal in mind...I want to make this and hope people like it...

My web site
http://www.uibuzz.com

That doesn't make a lot of sense. If the public didn't see the apps as "too expensive" before, they would have already bought them. Or otherwise the apps didn't meet their needs.

And you know what, many shareware apps ARE too expensive. After all, there are a lot of them around, and although they may seem cheap individually, they usually only permorm a couple of specific tasks - so the costs really add up once you start collecting them.

Anyway - why should it matter? Competition is good. It's not the job of one company to protect the sales of a different compny. As a business, their goal is to maximize their own sales and profits. If the feel a price cut is the best way to do that, then what's the problem?

Maybe if the other company lowered prices, they would make MORE money? It's not like pricing yourself out of the market is going to helps profits.

I think some of the developers statements that are actually involved in the MacHeist project speak for themselves. The real proof will be when MachHeist II comes around how many developers will signing contracts? If the naysayers and hecklers are correct their will be a very unsuccessful if any second heist. My guess says they will be beating down Phill's door to be a part of the project.

Getting Nothing Done
simplehiker

@jtwilkins

Interesting observation, it will indeed be interesting should another come around (do we even doubt that? )

I think the comments from both sides on this issue in many ways represent the struggle to embrace new ideas and new ways of marketing, who knows maybe this is the way of future marketing or maybe it's a big disaster, but sometimes you just have to try at least once!

My web site
http://www.uibuzz.com

@jtwilkins

Maybe. But I'm betting their deal will be different. I'm betting they'll want a share of the profit. An increasing profit as the sales go high. In my opinion that's where the unfairness can be pointed out: having the developers earning the same no matter how much is sold. Give them a percentage of the sale. It's only fair.

☆ Dropbox referral ☆
Extra note: "I don't think I've ever been a part of a true disaster before."

Perhaps, but if you have a solid product that you can confidently sell to many many users, participating in a bundle would be the most foolish move. Why sell potentially 10K copies of your app at less than 50 cents each when it could have paid for your 2nd house, albeit at a slower rate?

If you'd take a look at the apps in the bundle, how many of these would readily appeal to a wide audience? Apart from News Fire, I'd say none really. Perhaps that's why Newfire is locked because Watanabe recognised this, and fought for a larger lump sum.

@generik

There is more to it than that though, sure you could have a killer app but without the exposure of something like Macheist perhaps only 5% of your future customer base get to hear about it...there is no beating word of mouth or screen regardless of how good an app is.

Just another of my $0.02 making $0.04 so far

My web site
http://www.uibuzz.com

Well let's take FTP clients as an example. If you ask any random mac what FTP client he'd wish to have for free, the answer would invariably be Transmit.

Everywhere you go people just seem to have this obsession about Transmit that they can't seem to get out of. I'm fairly sure the people running Maczot, MAAD, and even MH have probably contacted the developers at Panic to ask if they are interested in taking part, but we know how that works out.

On one hand they could have participated in one of these events, gotten a nice $5000 cheque, and go about their merry business. But $5000? To them it is less than 150 customers sign ups, yet if they join up for (say) MH, potentially up to 10,000 sitting on the fence customers would just evaporate from your pool of future income. Since FTP clients are nothing cutting edge, this whole "upgrade revenue stream" thing would be a moot point anyway, besides who is to say people would pony up that readily for your upgrades in the future? Having tasted cheap warez once they know how long you can go, and they will just carry on sitting on the fence waiting for you to yield yet again.

The Mac community is small. Unlike Windows we basically have VersionTracker, and erm Macupdate. That's it. Any person can just go to these sites, key in the appropriate keywords, and find your (and your competitor's) products. As to word of mouth marketing, well if your buddy recommends you something that is readily available for you to try and it sucks in your opinion, would you accept it? Unlike cars or electronics, applications are fairly subjective, and similarly it is quite possible to download one and give it a whirl to see how well it suits your needs. Unlike cars and appliances which may break down prematurely a few years down the road.

If you have such an outstanding product to start with, it really wouldn't be in your best interests to participate in such a program. Not to say that I don't like it, I got Devonthink, Rapidweaver, and Newsfire, apps that I would have paid full price for, but thanks to MH gotten at a steal. But I can certainly see where the developers are coming from. By the same token, all this so called exposure due to Macheist did nothing to me, if the above 3 apps didn't show up in MH or in a Zot sometime in the near future I would have ponied the full license fees for them due to my needs regardless.

Ultimately it is a matter of perspective, the devs who took part took it all in a more optimistic way, ie: to all the customers who didn't really like it that much to start with, here have a go, and maybe in the future you might want to pay full license fees and support development of this app. to those that I missed out on full license fees on, well there's probably only a few hundred of you in a pool of 10,000 users; those who didn't and are opposed to these events are just those who keeps all their toys to themselves.

Also I do share in the sentiment that a flat payment for developers' participation does seem a little unfair to them. If the devs get paid proportionately, a lot of the above arguments would evaporate. After all there would be no heist if not for the apps.

In fear of beating a dead horse, I think the problem everyone has is that if the number skeep increasing, the Developers profits remain stable at a certain amount, which reduces the value of each sold item. However, since we are not really privvy to the details, beyond the snippets here and there, it is impossible to say if this is a good or bad deal. We can only speculate.

Although I agree that, after a certain point, it would seem a fairer deal to allow the developers a portion of the profits based on volume, we still have no evidence that this is or is not the case.

However, I do believe that the exposure and promotional opportunity this has provided these developers has been immense as well. Even if the are only making a small amount, so many new people have now seen and tasted their creations that it can't help but have a beneficial effect in the future.

Even those developers that have stated otherwise may have had a benefit as even unrelated Mac Shareware from developers voicing their concerns (and at the same time, using their own  or a favoured software as an example) may see a boost in sales simply because people read both sides of the equation and may have even decided to check out 'The other apps" they just read about.

I know for me, I'd say that I probably knew of about 10% of the apps out there existed, and have barely seen any of them in action. Now, I have a chance to try, use and fall in love with some awesome Mac software from independant developers both involved and not involved with MacHeist.

Strongblade!

This assumes that everybody buying the bundle would have bought the apps individually, anyway. I don't think that's a realistic argument.

I also think that many people will pay for upgrades once they start using a product, as the upgrade price doesn't have the same sticker shock that a new license does. It also encourages developers to make meaningful updates to their software. Why should users upgrade unless there is a compelling reason? This is good for the software market as a whole, as it encourages innovation.

Firstly, these are not warez - they're legitimate copies, not pirated versions.

OK - on the "how low can you go" point. There is tons of freeware and Open Source software out there. Being free, that's as low as you can go. Yet people still buy shareware and commercial apps. Why?

If this theory had any merit, nobody would be paying for software. And there are many developers whose products cost less than half the price of competing products. Yet people still buy the more expensive ones.

Are the people who are complaining about Macheist also pissed off that freeware and Open Source exists, and is undercutting shareware prices? That's the kind of argument that Microsoft makes about Linux and Open Source.

It's funny that on Daring Fireball, where a complaint was made about Macheist being a ripoff - he happily links to freeware projects on many occassions. So why is freeware allowed, but not cheap shareware?

Well, given the amazing way the selling of the bundle has increased after TextMate was unlocked, I'd say that I hope that at least its developer had a good deal on this (and not only a flat fare in the beginning).

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Extra note: "I don't think I've ever been a part of a true disaster before."

I do agree with you, but then let's not pretend it's for the good of ALL indy developer.
(that's the only point I'm ennoyed with really)

I was debating where I should write a followup: here, in a comment on the previously-mentioned article on Deep Thought, or somewhere else, and I finally decided to write my own article.  So here you go: More Musings on MacHeist.

I say if we raise 150k for charity, MacHeist gives each developer a 5k bonus.
Who could say they weren't being fair then?

I bet that any developer who turned MacHeist down would smacking themselves in the head then.

Now that would be supporting indie Mac development.

Huh? Huh?
Who's with me?

Do you have any evidence of this occurring?
Based on my experience I can’t say that I’ve seen that happen.

And freeware is very different from open source, by the way. You know, the whole ‘free speech‘ and not ‘free beer’ thingy...

Look Ma, no teeth!

Hasn't this been discussed before? Oh well...the developers have deals with the MH team (ie. Phill and them). Also, think about it...your a developer and your software  has just reached thousands of people that may like it and tell their freinds, thus causing them to buy it. It's like Ads without the charges.

It's sad how theAmazon is slowly falling apart.
I thought Phill died...
Avatar comps. of Leo Mancini (leomancini.net).

No, which is why I find it so hypocritical that they bash Macheist. Some of the most vocal bashers frequently link to freeware and Open Source apps that don't cost anything.

So, why aren't they pissed off at those developers who undercut price and "devalue" Mac software even more than Macheist?

I say hypocrisy is the reason - either that, or their brains are neutral, and they just aren't thinking.

Yes, I'm very much aware of this. But the "freedom" thing is not relevant to this discussion - because the critics are talking about "free beer" and profits - not freedom. It's just that most Open Source also happens to be "free beer" as well as "free speech."

I guess my brain is in neutral too, since I don’t understand you

I haven’t seen this as an argument against MacHeist. Can you point me to specific blogs or posts?

How are those developers devaluing Mac software?
Take Disco, a $24.95 app that eats Toast for breakfast. Or is it $14.95? Or $4.95?

I seriously doubt it will hurt Toast sales, yet it is cheaper. I paid less than $5 IIRC for my copy, and that was too much.

Take Burn. A ‘freeware‘ app. It may hurt Disco’s sales. It is a very good program. If it hurts Toast sales it will also be because it is a very good program.

The reason one application will hurt sales from a similar application has more to do with the quality of the application, and price -while relevant- may take a secondary role. I wouldn’t mind donating to Burn’s developers.

And what about the many shareware developers who offer their applications for free, or offer lite versions for free, or only limit some features with a free version?
Are they devaluing software too? Their own software?
I don’t think so. People are still paying for shareware. Unfortunately people are also pirating software and hurting sales, but that’s another story.

And there’s also ‘free‘ versions of commercial software, such as Office. I’m sure Microsoft still sells quite a bit of their Office software. And people also purchase iWork. And they also purchase shareware alternatives. As an example, I have Office, and purchased Mellel and Chartsmith as well. I have tried free alternatives and they did not do it for me.

And the freedom thing is VERY relevant IMO, since you’re talking about open source. Consulting for open source software can yield large amounts of money for the consultants. In that case it’s more ‘free speech’ than ‘free beer.’
Again, I’m not familiar with all the critics you are considering, so I could be wrong. Can you point me in their direction?

Some of the criticisms I’ve read, not only regarding MacHeist but also MyDreamApp and specific software, do make a lot of sense.
One thing that really surprises me is that users are content with some pretty low standards that are evident in some software. I’ve seen official releases of software that years ago would be considered early beta versions.
Maybe that happens more in the Mac community, I’m not sure. I do remember when the first beta of OS X came out many people praised it, and it SUCKED!!!!! I kept going back to OS 9, and fortunately OS X has consistently improved with each release (maybe because there are still many people who expect a lot in terms of quality and higher standards.)
I wonder what the future will bring if the people who are satisfied with mediocre products become a majority...

One thing that I liked about MacHeist, by the way, is that many of the titles in the bundle are from well known developers who provide the community with high-quality products.

Look Ma, no teeth!

Now, regarding fairness which is something I’ve read about, if a developer gets paid $3 in exchange for each one of their applications, is it fair?
That leaves MacHeist with $10 for each bundle sold (approximately), since we have 10 apps in a bundle, and let’s say the sale price is $40 ($49 minus discounts, quantity buys, etc.). As an example $40 is as good as any number, but seems realistic.

So $30 for the developers which we are all trying to support -and shout about it all the time- and $10 for MacHeist for each bundle. We can‘t forget about charity, can we?
So $22.50 goes to developers, $7.50 to MacHeist, and $10 to charity. (The $22.50 does not have to be divided equally, but that’s another story).

So, in this scenario, Developers get 56% of the money from the bundles, MacHeist gets 19% because of all their hard work, and Charities get 25%. Big cheers!!!!!
We’re helping developers, charities, and MacHeist gets a considerable percentage.

But let’s say that 15,000 bundles are sold for the same $40. Charities get $150,000, which is 25% of $600,000. IF a developer only got $5000 for their 15,000 programs, he/she is not only getting $0.33 per program, but only 8% of sales, compared to MacHeist’s 67% while charities remain at 25%.

Sure, the developers are getting publicity. OTOH, they will have to deal with increased customer service issues among other things. Not to mention the cheap price at which they sold their software.
Is it worth it to the developers for $5,000, assuming this number is correct? You’ll have to ask them. I can see some market strategies where this can be effective. I doubt it was the case here.

Does it seem fair when compared to the first scenario? Not IMO.
Does it look like we’re accomplishing the goal of supporting developers? That 8% seems a bit low if we want to pride ourselves in how much we’re helping developers.

Will I get an excellent deal if I purchase this bundle? YES!
Will I be supporting the developers? I really don’t think so.

I’m glad I purchased DevonThink Pro and DevonAgent. I think that showed my support. I’m also glad I’m not purchasing this bundle, even though now the 10 apps are included and I have zero risk. It would be hypocritical of me to purchase the bundle. I’m not even sure whether all of these developers actually deserve my support.

On a final note, support is not only shown by purchasing software. If we really want to support developers, constructive feedback is usually greatly appreciated. I know that I’ve received free applications in the past based on the feedback I gave to developers. And I’ve also paid for applications that I was given for free.

I think that a good measure of the success of MacHeist can come from a survey in a few months. We can ask developers whether they would participate again. We can ask those who purchased the bundle how satisfied they are with each program. We can ask Phil and Co. whether they want to do it again (my guess is that YES will be the answer). And so on. These opinions matter more than my ramblings

Time may yield a more objective view...

Look Ma, no teeth!

Try:

http://www.daringfireball.net

or

http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/posts/Ar … 2-12-12-00

It does? As far as I can see, Toast is the far superior application. I don't really see what Disco has to offer other than eye candy. In my opinion, Disco devalues itself by being glitz-over-substance. I'd rather use Disc Utility. But generally I use Toast.

Oh, you had your tongue in your cheek?

I don't believe so. But the alarmism over Macheist seems to indicate that some people think this way - except they seem fine with free trials and freeware. I think they really just want to bash Macheist because it's popular.

I have that beta. It sucked if you considered it as a final product. But it wasn't. People praised it because it had huge potential, it broke out of many of the OS9 confines. It wasn't a finished product though.

Time has shown that is does have enormous potential that is still being realized.

Why wonder? We live in that world already, just look at what Windows users put up with. Heck, even Linux users have shockingly low expectations from a user perspective.

Indeed.

How do you define fairness? We are talking business and economics here - and very little is fair in business and economics. Is it fair that some kids have millionaire parents, while others live in the street and become prostitutes?

The thing is that nobody is twisting these developers arms. They made the decision knowing what they were getting in to. being a Mac software developer in the first place, makes it likely that they are not starving on the streets. You need a certain amount of success in life to have the education to be a developer, and have access to a Mac.

That's a very big IF. We are not privy to the deal between the different developers and MH. this is one of the problems with the blogs. They all assume that they are all being paid $5000, simply based on rumors.

Well, I think that a good developer has the attitude that customer interaction is a benefit, not a cost. It helps you make a better product. I am rather suspicious of developers who see customer support as a negative thing, as simply a cost.

It's like the musicians I like. They love public feedback from their listeners, even if it is negative. Compare to arrogant, greedy musicians, who think the fans are a drag, and beneath them.

There have been numerous interviews with MH participants who say they are very happy with their participation.

The users might be more important than the money. Look how much other businesses pay to acquire new customers. Many of them would dream of being paid anything to get new customers, when they currently lose money to achieve that goal.

It's a lot cheaper to retain an existing customer than to gain a new one.

Shouldn't that be up to the developers to decide? By participating, they are inviting you to take the offer. Why do you feel the need to second-guess their business decisions?

But before you claimed it wasn't supporting the developers. Now you claim they don't deserve your support? Hmmmm.

Exactly. And don't you think this will massively increase the amount of feedback they get? It's pretty good market research. I think many who pooh-pooh MH because of the raw $$$$$$ don't understand the value in establishing customer relationships.

Most certainly. Which is why I got annoyed at so many bloggers coming out and bashing MH, without even bothering to try and understand it, or wait for any results to come in.

Particularly loathesome was the personal invective against Phill - and the pre-biased opinions formed from MacZOT and MyDreamApp. Seems like there were some personal axes to grind.

I agree with many of the ideas presented in those blogs. I think that the implications will be felt in the next few months. The Mac has also received many recent switchers, and they may be happy with something that looks shiny and nice. I hope that they’re not that shallow.

I found this today:
http://velvetsmog.vox.com/library/post/ … tware.html

I feel similar about Inbox and Disco. Shiny and useless for the most part. I hope Cha-Ching evolves into a great app, but I would not trust it with my finances to it as it is now.

“The Week of the Independent Mac Developer”? I’m not sure about that one.
Is iClip independent from MacHeist?
Do we really need Disco shoved down our throats at MacZot, MyDreamApp, and here?
Are we supporting the developers that deserve our support? I won’t mention names, but some reviews for a bundled app do not speak highly of its author.
After a certain threshold, wouldn’t it be more fair to give the developers a bigger share instead of a fixed amount?

“The Week of the Independent Mac Developer“? Great marketing. I hope that the Charity issue was sincere, though. I like to think it really was.

From a business perspective there’s a lot to admire in MacHeist. But there’s a lot of stuff that I’m not buying. And it’s not about bashing MacHeist for me. I loved it. I guess most of us loved it. And we forgave many glitches that elsewhere may be considered unforgivable.
If someone purchased Office and Microsoft sent their registration information to other people that would be quite a scandal.
Or if someone did not receive their registration numbers after several days, they would usually get a bit angry.
The examples abound. People have been very forgiving. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, by the way.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t think Disco is a good application. They‘re the ones who have said that Disco eats Toast for breakfast. I just repeated it here sarcastically.
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Maybe some developers are indeed bashing MacHeist because of its popularity, and/or because they did not get involved in it. Still, a lot of what has been said seems to be realistic.

As the saying goes: An intelligent person believes half of what they read (or hear or see...). A wise person knows which half...

Some things have been posted here by Phil and Co. Some have been posted elsewhere in blogs...

If 15,000 people are happy that Disco is shiny and smokey, then MacHeist was great for Disco.
If 3,000 people (20%) email customer support for one of the more sophisticated apps, they may rethink the whole MacHeist deal. Assuming it takes 5 minutes to reply to each customer, and that they only contact support once, we’re talking about 250 hours of customer support. Since these are shareware companies, I doubt they will have entry-level support people in Kolkata. Quite a bit of the money the developers made may go into customer support hours. Again, we won’t know until a few months have passed.
Let’s take DevonThink as an example. It’s a $40 app. If they got $5000 and have to deal with many support questions as mentioned before, and considering bandwidth for downloads, they may end up with $2500 (or less) from the $5000 they originally received, not to mention angry ‘customers’ if support is not speedy. I don’t know about Devon’s infrastructure. (Unsanity posted about their support readiness, yet they took too long to mail registration codes.)
They could make the same amount of money (roughly) if 600 customers buy the app. One of the advantages is that those 600 people buying the app are more likely to be familiar with it, thus requiring less support.
There are other implications as well, both positive and negative for developers.
I would expect that for the more complex software, such as TextMate and DevonThink, many Macheisters will just not use them. If, however, a few thousand people do use them and require support that can be very taxing on the developers.
Of those who stop using them, which can also be thousands, many may develop an aversion to the program thinking it is too complex, and this feeling may affect future purchasing decisions. For example, some may decide not to purchase Devon Agent since they didn’t enjoy using Devon Think.
There are many potential implications.

I’m definitely keeping my eyes and ears open in the next few months.
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The OS X beta was $30 IIRC. It SUCKED, and many of us paid for it. Yes, it changes a paradigm and opened a lot of doors, but as a public beta it was awful. Fortunately many of us complained about it, and Apple listened. Additionally, many of us provided feedback to Apple, and they partially listened. I think that 10.3 started to become what OS X originally promised.
A lot of OS X’s potential being realized also has to do with the Mac models in the market today. For a few years I did a lot of stuff under OS 9 on my G4, even though I already had OS X. It was just faster for many tasks, not to mention that for some things there was no way to do them under OS X (i.e., recording with ProTools and Digi001 or using certain programs).
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There are many great products for Linux and Windows. I don’t subscribe to a Mac rulez, Micro$oft sucks mentality. Anyway, my comment was addressing the Mac platform. I don’t recall so many people praising so many crappy software titles on the Mac before. I do remember people praising Pages or Keynote when they first appeared, but a visit to the forums at Apple showed a huge number of users pointing the programs‘ deficiencies. And the praise to Apple is somewhat expected. Apple is very lucky. The iPod has been a huge success for them even though the first one were crappy and expensive.
I remember back when the first G4s came out Apple tried to reduce their features and increase their prices. Thankfully a huge number of people complained and Apple had to change their ways.
Some G4s were nothing more than very nice G3s. Remember the ‘Yikes’ model? I still have one of those

Look Ma, no teeth!

Let me just note something about support. I've been talking to the developers involved, and their general response has been "tell whoever's complaining about support costs to create less buggy apps!". In general, the apps involved in the bundle are relatively mature, and have robust support systems in place. So far, from what I've heard, support from MacHeist customers have been pretty minimal.

Brian Greenstone (Pangea) especially thought this whole criticism hilarious, because, if you remember, he's had his games bundled on literally millions of Macs. And he handles support, game development, everything by himself.

Co-Creator of MacHeist, Clear, Partner at tap tap tap | follow me on twitter

There are many ways to define fairness in business and economy. Life is another thing.
You may want to look at research in procedural justice or distributive justice for example. There are also codes of ethics for many professions.
What seemed fair originally may not be that fair at all.

Given my idea of fairness, if I record an album and pay the musicians I’m being fair. I paid them for their work.
Now, let’s say the album flops. I lose money. I took all the risk and lost. The musicians probably don’t care since they already got paid.
But what if the record starts selling well, and I sell 100,000 copies. Good for me. Still good for the musicians. They get recognition from having played in my album.
But guess what? My songs are fabultastic and I sell 30 million records!!!!!
My concept of fairness compels me to call the musicians and give them more money. Let’s say that I paid the singer $250 per song and we recorded 10 songs. Instead of the $2500 I gave him/her, I may end up giving him/her ten or twenty times as much. The same applies for the rest of the musicians.
I’ll still be rich, they will have more money plus happy feelings inside, and it will be a nice gesture.
Sure, business is not like that... or isn’t it? People get unexpected -and expected-bonuses in business.
And some people like to show their appreciation when people working with them have helped them make money. Just ask Tom Selleck
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That’s why the if is in bold
Not all assume the $5000, though, as pointed in one of the blogs you mentioned.
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It’s not about customer feedback or being arrogant. It‘s more about a business reality for small businesses. A developer may love feedback from dozens of customers, perhaps even hundreds. Many set up blogs and fora for this purpose.
We are talking about thousands of people here.
As a musician and someone who has toured with musicians I can tell you that I agree with your comment. But the reality is that if you do a show, play for one hour, do a meet and greet, and need to play another set, you will get to talk to maybe hundreds of people. If 20 or 30 thousand people want pictures and autographs that’s not feasible. In the case of shareware it’s a more difficult situation, since they are all paying customers and expect answers to their questions, whether their important or trivial.
Just browse these forums and you’ll find posts about what has been posted before, questions about what has been answered, and so on.
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Participants are happy now.
Often the short term vision is not the best perspective.
And I can see how some participants are happy. Many people would not have purchased their software otherwise.
As to numerous, I’ve read about Devon and Unsanity. iClip may be happy since he’s also a partner, isn’t he? Disco should be happy that anyone has his software.
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To quote myself: ”I can see some market strategies where this can be effective.”
And while it may be cheaper to retain customers, it is also easier to lose customers than to get one
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This one I don’t understand.
Are the developers deciding whether the deal is excellent?  I don’t think they are.
These 10 apps for $40 are a great deal. That should be evident, even for thos who won’t use all of these apps.
And I’m not second-guessing business decisions. They made their choices. I hope they’re happy.
I can offer my opinion on whether I believe it was an intelligent business decision, though. For that I would have to ask them for more information, and will probably charge them by the hour. But typically I get consulted before the business is conducted or a decision is made.
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What are you talking about?
Before I said that based on the apparent structure of the deal, my money is not really supporting the developers. I think I even mentioned an 8% amount. You can choose what to quote if you want, but that does not change what I said:
“That 8% seems a bit low if we want to pride ourselves in how much we’re helping developers.”
As far as the developers deserving my support, I said “I’m not even sure whether all of these developers actually deserve my support.” (Emphasis added)
Hmmmm indeed.
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I fail to see this as good market research and the establishment of customer relationships. There’s a lack of focus for this to be either of these.
If we were talking about a single program, or people who are indeed interested in all the programs, that would be a different story.
Many positive things can come out of this, and I hope they will, but I certainly do not agree with your statement.
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I don’t think it’s just about bashing MacHeist or not understanding it.
And I have nothing but respect for Phil. Even admiration. Hell, I was a fan when I saw his blog regarding Bryan Lund
I visit MacZot every day. I like it. I am annoyed by some things there, and so are many other users. There have been months that I purchase nothing there, in spite of my daily visits.
If you read the posts there, you’ll find a lot of criticism. Zot welcomes that criticism and so far he is improving.
MyDreamApp sounded very promising. If you think the Mac needs another sync utility, another cookbook, and a graphical display of the weather on your desktop, then obviously we have very different needs and expectations, and we use our Macs for different purposes.
Many apps did sound like great ideas. Of course, they didn’t get enough votes.
I don’t know whether some bloggers do have axes to grind. I do find myself agreeing with a lot of the criticism that has been mentioned. I also agree with a lot of what Phil has posted. Things are not always mutually exclusive.

Look Ma, no teeth!

I’m referring to other types of support. I know that I’ve answered many questions here regarding DevonThink, and I’m happy to do it.
It is a complex application that does a myriad of things. People may have questions about what to do with it, how to do it, what are it’s capabilities and limitations, etc.

Before I ask a question I try to solve it on my own. In the case of Devon, they have manuals, tutorials, fora, videos, etc. By now I think you’ve noticed that many MacHeisters don’t like to read That’s something to consider.

Support from Unsanity was needed because of registration numbers.

Support for TextMate may be needed due to its complexity.

Support may even come from people asking to upgrade to other versions (e.g., DT Pro), so that’s good

And based on some reviews, apparently one developer is not good at support.

I wouldn’t think of contacting Pangea for support, but I imagine that if 15,000 suddenly contacted him, he would not be laughing

I know of many successful one-person businesses, and one of the challenges that they eventually face has to do with answering emails. And it’s not that they’re bad at support, but they literally have no time once it passes a certain threshold. I don’t know what the tipping point is. Even using GTD techniques email can be problematic or at the very least very time consuming. For these one-person operations answering emails meant not spending time on production, research, management, accounting, etc.

Then again, perhaps not many people will ask for support

Look Ma, no teeth!

You seemed to have missed my point. That would never happen, does not happen, and has not been happening. When I brought up Pangea, that was to illustrate this point. He's shipped his games to literally millions of users, and has handled support just fine (while pumping out a lot of great games) by himself. And my other point, which was that, so far, not that many MacHeist customers have been emailing. You're assuming a lot of things here, and I'm telling you the facts.

Co-Creator of MacHeist, Clear, Partner at tap tap tap | follow me on twitter

Well, it happened to KIT, at least based on what I read after posting.

“For me, what happened afterwards is what was most interesting. Unsurprisingly, I was inundated with support emails, some were bugs, many, many more were feature requests and others were just questions. All were welcome. I did underestimate the impact of this, however. After working my way through them all diligently I found it was the middle of October.“

http://reinventedsoftware.com/blog/2006 … o-inferno/

Regarding Pangea, out of all those millions how many use the games?
Is there anything in particular about the games that may require support?
Are there any measures in place to prevent people from contacting support? (e.g., FAQ’s, fora, manuals, etc.)

I’m pretty sure that not all people will use the games, not all people who do use the games require support, and for those who require support there may already be a solution in Pangea’s website.

I’m also pretty sure that sophisticated applications do require more support. (An assumption? Perhaps, but there’s a reason...)

Why aren’t more people emailing developers right now? Simple. Because a lot of the support is happening here. I know I’ve answered many questions about Shapeshifter and DT. Others have done the same and for other applications as well.
You and Co have probably done the same, or at the very least solved support questions in terms of logistics, bugs, registration numbers, etc. (And I bet that this  assumption is a fact.)

If answers were not provided here, don’t you think that more and more support requests would go directly to the developers?

And many people don’t have questions yet.

It would be interesting to know their current level of emails and support, and measure it for the next 3-5 months. And it will certainly be different for each of the 10 applications.

I don’t think it’s about assumptions vs. facts, although both assumptions and facts play a role.

And just because I like you, you may enjoy reading about the ladder of inference Argyris has some very interesting ideas. I think this one was also used by Peter Senge.

Assumptions are a part of how each of us interpret factual data. I love the phrase “when you assume you make an ass of u and me“ so I tend to avoid making haphazard assumptions.
I don’t think my ‘potential scenarios’ are out of touch with reality. Finding the post about KIT actually reaffirmed my ideas.

If there’s no significant increase in support/emails for Devon and TextMate in the next few months, feel free to email me and tell me I was absolutely wrong. Of course, there’s always the possibility that people chose not to use these apps given their apparent complexity

Look Ma, no teeth!

"Why aren’t more people emailing developers right now? Simple. Because a lot of the support is happening here. "

That is giving this forum a tad too much credit.
I posit that most users with questions will first search Help, then goto the developer's website (and if there is one, the forum), and then hit up Google.com, before emailing the developer.

How about: Why aren't more people emailing developers for support?  Because they don't know they can.

Perhaps because the forum deserves the credit.
And as I mentioned:
“Before I ask a question I try to solve it on my own. In the case of Devon, they have manuals, tutorials, fora, videos, etc. By now I think you’ve noticed that many MacHeisters don’t like to read“

You proved my point

Look Ma, no teeth!

Could be. That would be very ignorant, but could be.

Look Ma, no teeth!

OK guys, I've written up my opinion on this/switch story.  It's much too long to repost here, so instead you can visit my (fairly new) blog here.  (Sorry the url is such as mess, I'm blogging in RapidWeaver and that's what it produces.  I haven't taken the time to change them yet.)

Hope you'll check it out.  Thanks!

Ooh, teams!