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Corsec

Corsec

Tinkerer

19 posts

johnred wrote:
Corsec wrote:

These graphic effects have no purpose. They are only for looks. Does that animation help productivity? Does it help you complete your task quicker? Does it make your task easier. No, it dont do any of those things, It wastes resources with no upside except "it looks pretty" for a few seconds.

If it puts a bit of a smile on your face, even for an instant then it does serve a purpose IMO. As time goes on, more and more software will become fun to use. And this is a good thing for the average user.

By your logic, we should be doing everything through the Terminal. If you're an IT professional then sure, but most Mac users aren't and enjoy good looking, functional software with a bit of eye candy thrown in.

I object to being quoted out of context like this. If you read the entire post up about half a page you would have seen this that directly follows the above comments.

Corsec wrote:

My Winodws Server and mouse on the other hand eat up far more resources...but they have a point. They conceptualize my files in a way thats easier to understand. They allow for faster navigation and all around productivity. They HELP me, pointless animations dont.

The point Im making is that there is a time and a place for extravagant resource hungry aesthetic animations. This probably isn't one of them. Granted its nice to have some kind of visual feedback to see what its doing, and perhaps current progress and this style of feedback does satisfy that first condition well.  However what is actually happening in you are thrashing my disk, writing over the same section (possibly very very large) multiple times (~30). For the best security it will need to also be generating random data to write over this section or hardware based forensics may be able to retrieve the data. So at this point you are thrashing my disk, and using at least some system resources (CPU/Memory) to generate the random data used to thrash my disk. And now you want to start a resource intensive animation because it "makes me smile"? Well, please make sure to include an option to turn off this free smile smile

Corsec
Green Team

May 1, 2007 1:48 am
step

step

Sky Pirate

from Georgia, US
1,787 posts

Corsec wrote:
johnred wrote:
Corsec wrote:

These graphic effects have no purpose. They are only for looks. Does that animation help productivity? Does it help you complete your task quicker? Does it make your task easier. No, it dont do any of those things, It wastes resources with no upside except "it looks pretty" for a few seconds.

If it puts a bit of a smile on your face, even for an instant then it does serve a purpose IMO. As time goes on, more and more software will become fun to use. And this is a good thing for the average user.

By your logic, we should be doing everything through the Terminal. If you're an IT professional then sure, but most Mac users aren't and enjoy good looking, functional software with a bit of eye candy thrown in.

I object to being quoted out of context like this. If you read the entire post up about half a page you would have seen this that directly follows the above comments.

Corsec wrote:

My Winodws Server and mouse on the other hand eat up far more resources...but they have a point. They conceptualize my files in a way thats easier to understand. They allow for faster navigation and all around productivity. They HELP me, pointless animations dont.

The point Im making is that there is a time and a place for extravagant resource hungry aesthetic animations. This probably isn't one of them. Granted its nice to have some kind of visual feedback to see what its doing, and perhaps current progress and this style of feedback does satisfy that first condition well.  However what is actually happening in you are thrashing my disk, writing over the same section (possibly very very large) multiple times (~30). For the best security it will need to also be generating random data to write over this section or hardware based forensics may be able to retrieve the data. So at this point you are thrashing my disk, and using at least some system resources (CPU/Memory) to generate the random data used to thrash my disk. And now you want to start a resource intensive animation because it "makes me smile"? Well, please make sure to include an option to turn off this free smile smile

I can't speak for John, but I read his comments as meaning that your Windows Server and mouse may have a point, but they are NOT more efficient for a trained user.  The terminal is still faster and more productive in many ways.  Now I'm not arguing we all should be terminal users - I love the GUI and I think it brings usability way up, training requirements way down, and allows many people access to many more functions than they probably would learn through the command line - not to mention being more fun. 

But I think if you're arguing for the window server, then it's just an argument on  sliding scales of resource cost versus prettiness versus perceived "utility".  If your aesthetic doesn't include "prettiness" as part of "utility", I sort of question why you are even a Mac user.  It seems to me that Windows or Linux would suit you better.

Now "extravagant resource hungry aesthetic animations" - how do you know it is extravagant?  Resource hungry?  On what basis are you attacking it?  It sounds like you just don't like animations - fair enough, but what do you make of the apps zooming in and out of the dock, fading and shifting and moving and generally looking good?  Further, you are clearly aware that this "shredding" is an I/O bound operation since it is doing multiple writes on the HD - hardly a CPU / GPU intensive operation - yet you are still worried about the resources from the animation?   This is really a complaint in search of a problem, or perhaps just a visceral dislike of "unnecessary fluff"?

Whistle while you work.  Patience is key.

May 1, 2007 2:55 am
tech

tech

Sky Pirate

from Rantoul, Illinois
1,516 posts

These arguments are ridiculous.  Way too much arguing and comparing things as if they are extremes when the real issues not.

It's about perspective and some of it's about specific users who tend to be a little too condescending to others.  For instance if a Mac user wants to use a Mac that doesn't have pretty graphics all over the place, let him be.  Who the hell made you the Mac god?

It also goes the other way if someone wants pretty graphics everywhere, let him be.

This argument is about personal taste and everyone has their own taste.

Frankly sometimes I wonder if certain Mac users could ever handle being in a larger marketshare.  The beauty of having a growing market is that there is room for options.  In the past in many areas it was usually easy to pick out software in the Mac market and say "this is the one to get".  Now we see more options all of the time.  It doesn't mean that one is better than the other but that there are options.  With options you get burning software that shows smoke for some folks while for others there are similar programs that just display in a basic way what is going on.  Personally I could care less for the smoke unless I'm going to sit there and stare at it or show it off.  I typically do neither.  I want to have something going and move on to working on something else.  That's me though. 

Depending on *my* system and what else I want to do can decide just how resource hungry I think something might be.

Note I'm not saying that people can't express an opinion because opinions are feedback that developers want.  To enter into attacking people and/or their opinions is simply idiotic and childish.  I've worn both Mac and Windows hats at work and home and the attitudes I've seen by a few here clearly show why I'm embarrassed to talk about Macs around many of my colleagues in the Windows community.  Mac users on the whole are considered by many to be superficial and fanatical to the point of driving people away who might be the least bit interested in the Mac.  Pretty sad really.

And, before I end this, sure I used Disco as an example.  It came to mind first and I thought might better reflect my point since this software isn't even finished.

<insert out-dated referral link here>

May 1, 2007 5:48 pm
Apcs11

Apcs11

Dirigible Captain

from Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
2,577 posts

tech wrote:

Frankly sometimes I wonder if certain Mac users could ever handle being in a larger marketshare.

I dont know. I think the current state of the macosphere is based upon how it has a small marketshare and there are so few users. Its like an exclusive club. Thats one of the reasons why the Apple television commercials aren't well received in the UK. Cause of the snob appeal and the exclusivity. In the US however, how come the commercials are doing so well?

I think that as the market share increases the face of Macintosh userbase and the software available will change drastically.


IMO, of course.

Han shot first.

May 1, 2007 8:05 pm
jdcfsu

jdcfsu

Automaton Tech

268 posts

tech wrote:

These arguments are ridiculous.  Way too much arguing and comparing things as if they are extremes when the real issues not.

You ignited the argument with your whole cost/benefit statement but you're right, it all comes down to personal preference. If, for you, the benefit of non-ascetically-pleasing applications outweighs those of ascetically-pleasing ones, well there you go. But for me, and some of the others here based on replies, it's the other way around. I know that, as I stated in my Disco example, I'd prefer an application that shows off the creativity of the designer. I love apps that do this. Scrivener doesn't have to show off the "research" tabs in the form of note-cards on a cork board, but I like that they do. Countless apps don't have to utilize Growl support to announce things are happening, but I like that they do. But, like you said, if this all these options are trivial for you then avoid applications that utilize them. Just don't throw out an entire application because it does.

I like to pull heists.

May 1, 2007 9:44 pm

alej744

Sky Pirate

from Miami
1,813 posts

I hate it when I'm so late to these arguments. I don't even know what to say, I have so many mixed feelings.

May 1, 2007 11:57 pm
mdmunoz

mdmunoz

Big Game Hunter

642 posts

I'm also in-between on this issue. I think things like Cookbook's interface are ridiculous, but while I was initially skeptical, I think Disco makes a great case for being a useful product, and the presence of eye candy can't detract from that (the strange contradiction being that Austin Sarner does both of these apps).

May 2, 2007 1:45 am
shadownight

shadownight

Sky Pirate

from Montreal, Canada
1,567 posts

I'm not too sure about Cookbook, but I'll have to try it and use it to really see... it could be an amazing, immersive experience as much as a clumsy, annoying interface (let's hope for the first!).

Any Safe Deposit updates coming soon?

Back on my two feet

May 2, 2007 1:51 am
bododavid

bododavid

Gearhead

from America
71 posts

the loot did say that we would be getting the beta soon, and it has been almost two weeks. Any news Ollie?

Bundle referral link:
http://www.macheist.com/bundle/u/17402/

May 2, 2007 2:29 am
Ollie

Ollie

Tinkerer

from Albuquerque
23 posts

bododavid wrote:

the loot did say that we would be getting the beta soon, and it has been almost two weeks. Any news Ollie?

We're still working hard on it every day. Please also keep in mind we are both students with a full line-up of finals in the next couple weeks smile

May 2, 2007 4:13 am
step

step

Sky Pirate

from Georgia, US
1,787 posts

mdmunoz wrote:

I'm also in-between on this issue. I think things like Cookbook's interface are ridiculous, but while I was initially skeptical, I think Disco makes a great case for being a useful product, and the presence of eye candy can't detract from that (the strange contradiction being that Austin Sarner does both of these apps).

I think most people that posted are in-between on this type of thing - some people just don't take it well if you disagree with their position.  wink 

Cookbook's interface - I don't think it's ridiculous, but I can see why others might think so.  Anyway, I'm pretty open to new interfaces (for example, I loved the idea of the Ribbon for MS Office for Windows back when everyone was hating on it before they'd even seen it in action). 

Either way, though, I think we really need to reserve judgement until we try the app in action - hating it now is just hating a picture, when a software program is so much more than that.  The fact taht you've grown to accept Disco and that it's the same developer indicates to me that maybe he'll manage to win some people over to Cookbook too once it's released.  I hope, anyway!  wink

But yeah, there is definitely a vocal group that really dislikes the wood look for Cookbook.  I don't really know how large that group is, though, but they'll find out when Cookbook is released for sale, that's for sure.

Whistle while you work.  Patience is key.

May 2, 2007 3:31 pm
boris91

boris91

Tinkerer

48 posts

I don't get what the hell is your problem, guys. Certainly the CookBook developers will let the users use the skins of their choice?

If not, there will be a rebellion if I am to believe what's written in this thread. wink

May 2, 2007 9:26 pm
autumnmist

autumnmist

Gearhead

from Chicago
97 posts

boris91, unless something has changed that we haven't been told about, there will NOT be an option to turn off the wood panel look.

See Austin's post here:
"John obviously forgot to take all his pills this morning (joking, joking...) but I do agree with him.  The style is pretty set in stone right now and there are some more "standard" alternatives to Cookbook."
http://mydreamapp.com/forums/viewtopic. … 704#p18704

So um, that's our problem.  tongue

Gorange!

May 2, 2007 9:32 pm

alej744

Sky Pirate

from Miami
1,813 posts

autumnmist wrote:

boris91, unless something has changed that we haven't been told about, there will NOT be an option to turn off the wood panel look.

See Austin's post here:
"John obviously forgot to take all his pills this morning (joking, joking...) but I do agree with him.  The style is pretty set in stone right now and there are some more "standard" alternatives to Cookbook."
http://mydreamapp.com/forums/viewtopic. … 704#p18704

So um, that's our problem.  tongue

Wow, that's not very nice. Would it be that hard to include some radio buttons in the preferences to switch from native aqua to wood and back?

May 3, 2007 2:29 am
merlik

merlik

Automaton Tech

from Lehigh Acres, Forida
207 posts

Interesting post on the SafeDeposit App blog today.  I really can't wait to try it.  It will be nice to encrypt some of my private data on the computer.

Twitter Go Team Orange!

May 3, 2007 2:37 am
Ollie

Ollie

Tinkerer

from Albuquerque
23 posts

May 3, 2007 2:45 am
wph

wph

Sky Pirate

1,591 posts

Ollie wrote:

New Post

http://safedepositapp.com/blog

Muy interesante

May 3, 2007 3:01 am
amfr

amfr

Big Game Hunter

543 posts

Sounds great

May 3, 2007 3:24 am
step

step

Sky Pirate

from Georgia, US
1,787 posts

fascinating.  I wonder what the big picture change was?  Guess we'll know eventually, but that never stopped us speculating before.  big_smile

Whistle while you work.  Patience is key.

May 3, 2007 12:44 pm
boris91

boris91

Tinkerer

48 posts

autumnmist wrote:

boris91, unless something has changed that we haven't been told about, there will NOT be an option to turn off the wood panel look.

See Austin's post here:
"John obviously forgot to take all his pills this morning (joking, joking...) but I do agree with him.  The style is pretty set in stone right now and there are some more "standard" alternatives to Cookbook."
http://mydreamapp.com/forums/viewtopic. … 704#p18704

So um, that's our problem.  tongue

Ok, i guess Austin is evil then.

May 3, 2007 9:52 pm
boris91

boris91

Tinkerer

48 posts

step wrote:

fascinating.  I wonder what the big picture change was?  Guess we'll know eventually, but that never stopped us speculating before.  big_smile

I think the word "supernova" is a clue to what kind of interface they are going to use. Maybe it will be a highly anumated ball of light/some awesome star formation floating on the desktop?

In any case, it appers they are dropping the interface shown in the previous video.

May 3, 2007 9:54 pm

tuffluffjimmy

Urchin

9 posts

Ollie, is there any way you can tell us a window for launch you guys are shooting for? How soon should we expect a beta?

May 4, 2007 1:42 am
johnred

johnred

Directorate

1,869 posts

boris91 wrote:
autumnmist wrote:

boris91, unless something has changed that we haven't been told about, there will NOT be an option to turn off the wood panel look.

See Austin's post here:
"John obviously forgot to take all his pills this morning (joking, joking...) but I do agree with him.  The style is pretty set in stone right now and there are some more "standard" alternatives to Cookbook."
http://mydreamapp.com/forums/viewtopic. … 704#p18704

So um, that's our problem.  tongue

Ok, i guess Austin is evil then.

He's been known to drown his share of puppies on occasion too.

John Casasanta
MacHeist Director
tap tap tap chief

May 4, 2007 3:48 am
Ollie

Ollie

Tinkerer

from Albuquerque
23 posts

tuffluffjimmy wrote:

Ollie, is there any way you can tell us a window for launch you guys are shooting for? How soon should we expect a beta?

I'd only like to get as specific as "soon". We're working hard on this, and I'll make sure to keep you updated with previews wink

May 4, 2007 6:06 pm
step

step

Sky Pirate

from Georgia, US
1,787 posts

johnred wrote:
boris91 wrote:
autumnmist wrote:

boris91, unless something has changed that we haven't been told about, there will NOT be an option to turn off the wood panel look.

See Austin's post here:
"John obviously forgot to take all his pills this morning (joking, joking...) but I do agree with him.  The style is pretty set in stone right now and there are some more "standard" alternatives to Cookbook."
http://mydreamapp.com/forums/viewtopic. … 704#p18704

So um, that's our problem.  tongue

Ok, i guess Austin is evil then.

He's been known to drown his share of puppies on occasion too.

that was . . . disturbing. 

And why do I get the feeling that Mr Stabby was responsible for the previous bottom entry on that sign as well?

Whistle while you work.  Patience is key.

May 4, 2007 6:16 pm
boris91

boris91

Tinkerer

48 posts

johnred wrote:
boris91 wrote:
autumnmist wrote:

boris91, unless something has changed that we haven't been told about, there will NOT be an option to turn off the wood panel look.

See Austin's post here:
"John obviously forgot to take all his pills this morning (joking, joking...) but I do agree with him.  The style is pretty set in stone right now and there are some more "standard" alternatives to Cookbook."
http://mydreamapp.com/forums/viewtopic. … 704#p18704

So um, that's our problem.  tongue

Ok, i guess Austin is evil then.

He's been known to drown his share of puppies on occasion too.

Uh-oh...

May 5, 2007 9:56 pm

james948

Urchin

3 posts

IS there any eta on this beta? I keep on checking. Would be lovely to know a rough estimate on its eta.
Cheers.

May 6, 2007 10:55 pm
Apcs11

Apcs11

Dirigible Captain

from Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
2,577 posts

james948 wrote:

IS there any eta on this beta? I keep on checking. Would be lovely to know a rough estimate on its eta.
Cheers.

eta? 7th letter of the greek alphabet?

Han shot first.

May 6, 2007 11:34 pm
max

max

Sky Pirate

1,167 posts

Estimated Time of Arrival, I believe tongue

May 6, 2007 11:36 pm

james948

Urchin

3 posts

yep.
any ideas?

May 7, 2007 8:30 am
mdmunoz

mdmunoz

Big Game Hunter

642 posts

Any news will come from their blog. Just subscribe to it, and you'll be the first to know.

May 7, 2007 9:25 am
Arh326

Arh326

Automaton Tech

from Los Angeles, Ca
161 posts

No updates in almost a month....anything???

May 25, 2007 9:52 pm
boboboe

boboboe

Moderator

from Eastern Canada
2,356 posts

Arh326 wrote:

No updates in almost a month....anything???

Something is coming...

Flickr

May 26, 2007 2:53 am
wph

wph

Sky Pirate

1,591 posts

I had almost forgotten about this app... I wonder how it's coming.

May 26, 2007 4:31 am
definetheline

definetheline

Sky Pirate

from Canada
1,512 posts

boboboe wrote:
Arh326 wrote:

No updates in almost a month....anything???

Something is coming...

I almost thought this was Phill for a second... tongue

the greatest blog known to mankind / twitter / flickr

May 26, 2007 12:19 pm

alej744

Sky Pirate

from Miami
1,813 posts

Typical slowness. meh.
=/

May 30, 2007 1:48 am
shadownight

shadownight

Sky Pirate

from Montreal, Canada
1,567 posts

All these people with their watches set to MacHeist time...

Back on my two feet

May 30, 2007 8:49 pm
wph

wph

Sky Pirate

1,591 posts

shadownight wrote:

All these people with their watches set to MacHeist time...

This is true.

I wish we could see a little update, just to know it's still going along well.

May 30, 2007 10:59 pm
shadownight

shadownight

Sky Pirate

from Montreal, Canada
1,567 posts

wph wrote:
shadownight wrote:

All these people with their watches set to MacHeist time...

This is true.

I wish we could see a little update, just to know it's still going along well.

Sigh, you made me think of MDA and you've prompted me to write this. I so wish I didn't have to write it.

Back on my two feet

May 31, 2007 12:13 am
boboboe

boboboe

Moderator

from Eastern Canada
2,356 posts

shadownight wrote:
wph wrote:
shadownight wrote:

All these people with their watches set to MacHeist time...

This is true.

I wish we could see a little update, just to know it's still going along well.

Sigh, you made me think of MDA and you've prompted me to write this. I so wish I didn't have to write it.

It's ok. We all understand.

Flickr

May 31, 2007 2:06 am
mdmunoz

mdmunoz

Big Game Hunter

642 posts

shadownight wrote:

Sigh, you made me think of MDA and you've prompted me to write this. I so wish I didn't have to write it.

Also, Hijack. I want my Hijack, and the blog doesn't update. Where are these people?

May 31, 2007 3:09 am
wph

wph

Sky Pirate

1,591 posts

shadownight wrote:
wph wrote:
shadownight wrote:

All these people with their watches set to MacHeist time...

This is true.

I wish we could see a little update, just to know it's still going along well.

Sigh, you made me think of MDA and you've prompted me to write this. I so wish I didn't have to write it.

Great post that I totally read all the way through.
You're right on the money with that, I'm disappointed in all the secrecy .

May 31, 2007 3:18 am
step

step

Sky Pirate

from Georgia, US
1,787 posts

wph wrote:
shadownight wrote:
wph wrote:

This is true.

I wish we could see a little update, just to know it's still going along well.

Sigh, you made me think of MDA and you've prompted me to write this. I so wish I didn't have to write it.

Great post that I totally read all the way through.
You're right on the money with that, I'm disappointed in all the secrecy .

+1, though honestly I'm sort of holding out until next week to see what news shows up - I'm sure everyone involved is way too busy getting ready for that at the moment.

Whistle while you work.  Patience is key.

June 4, 2007 9:13 pm

tuffluffjimmy

Urchin

9 posts

I bet a kagillion dollars that next week they say, "We were just about ready to release it, but now we are going to optimize it for Mac OS 10.5.0, just wait until october!"
Meh. I don't really care anymore I feel like this app will be a little anticlimactic anyway.

June 8, 2007 1:50 am
ivan

ivan

Gearhead

from Middleburg, VA
91 posts

^ Which devoloper would release what?
Hijack?

avatar made by onerythem...

Check out the t3chJunkie forums

June 8, 2007 6:08 am
ivan

ivan

Gearhead

from Middleburg, VA
91 posts

mdmunoz wrote:

Also, Hijack. I want my Hijack, and the blog doesn't update. Where are these people?

They updated their blog last Wednesday, June 6th!

avatar made by onerythem...

Check out the t3chJunkie forums

June 8, 2007 6:14 am
wph

wph

Sky Pirate

1,591 posts

ivan wrote:
mdmunoz wrote:

Also, Hijack. I want my Hijack, and the blog doesn't update. Where are these people?

They updated their blog last Wednesday, June 6th!

Twice!

June 8, 2007 4:15 pm

tuffluffjimmy

Urchin

9 posts

ivan wrote:

^ Which devoloper would release what?
Hijack?

the developers of the safe deposit box

June 8, 2007 9:43 pm

coryxrx

Urchin

4 posts

Is the beta release soon?

June 9, 2007 12:21 am

tuffluffjimmy

Urchin

9 posts

coryxrx wrote:

Is the beta release soon?

Don't get your hopes up, this was a poor prize... all that work i put into cracking the code >:(

but maybe I'm wrong, they may come out with it tomorrow, and it will revolution the entire OS... except of course they will probably have something that does the same thing in leopard.

June 12, 2007 10:45 pm
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