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I agree. A form seems like a good idea. If we consent to allowing MacHeist to giving our email addresses, we can just say so. That way only the addresses of those who actually use the app will be revealed. However, what if someone doesn't sign the form but later wishes to use Cha-Ching? The form will have to be kept open to allow stragglers to still have access.

I'm more than willing to have MacHeist give my address.

Green Team!

What a nice way to ask

1. The problem is only a problem if people who solved the heist and want Cha-Ching don’t want their email disclosed. One solution is to ask them. You have their emails, so you can ask via email or you can create a new thread about it. The thread won’t reach all of the people who solved the heist and want Cha-Ching, though.

2. Involve the affected people in the discussion. It’s nice that all the relevant MacHeist Directorate members discussed the possibilities, but why not involve the affected parties in that discussion? This thread is actually a good start. All the relevant MacHeist Directorate members made a decision that they “feel” is right, without consulting with the affected MacHeist members. That doesn’t make much sense to me, particularly given that MacHeist members overall are a pretty smart bunch. Why not ask for their input? Again, this thread -started by a MacHeist member- is a good start. If you want to delve deeper into this aspect, read about Procedural Justice or even about the Centenari brothers. Since this is the one case where you actually want to hear more of what I have to say it’s quite funny that the article about them is called “The Power of Listening.” Anyway, it’s worth reading.
http://www.inc.com/

We can look for problems to every solution, or solutions to every problem. I don’t see this as a problem. Again, one solution is asking the affected people. For people who don’t mind that their emails go to Cha-Ching there’s no problem. If some people don’t want their emails shared there are solutions as well. The solutions will require a bit of work. If work is a problem then I have no solution

...

Look Ma, no teeth!

I've already gotten at least one request for the 1.0.1 build, and I have some bad news: it's a 20.8 MB file, which doesn't react so well to email attachments - I'll see what I can do about getting it posted to MegaUpload. Again tell me if you want it - I don't want to promote piracy (just to let the people who went to 1.0.2 go back to 1.0.1) so I'll just give out the link to those who really need it.

Marathon Forever.
AppShelf: MacHeist 3 Loot
AppShelf: nanoBundle 1
Check Reciept Page for nanoBundle 2 AppShelf Files.

I'd like to refer to David Watanabe's stance on activation - frankly, I don't blame MidnightApps at all for putting activation in Cha-Ching. Sure it means that their product is getting popular, but in the end, if no one is willing to really pay for their software then they need to do what they have to do, to make what they do sustainable.

Otherwise, I think Bob's spot on. Why not just have a thread going where people can post their email addresses for the Directorate to send to MidnightApps?

Marathon Forever.
AppShelf: MacHeist 3 Loot
AppShelf: nanoBundle 1
Check Reciept Page for nanoBundle 2 AppShelf Files.

I'm also a little confused about the licensing- My license is tied to my individual email address- so I'm assuming everyone else's is. If that is the case, then MH must have provided the developer with a list originally so he could issue a registration code. Am I missing something?

http://twitter.com/madysondesigns

So I talked with the Cha-Ching people again and we've got a fairly half-assed solution to this problem. The good thing is that everyone's privacy will remain intact which is extremely important to us.

So to have them enter your information into their database you'll need to go to your loot page then take a screenshot of the Cha-Ching loot which included your email address and Cha-Ching serial number and email this to them.

Also, copy and paste your email address and serial number in text form in the email so that they can easily enter it into the database.

John Casasanta
MacHeist Director
tap tap tap chief

Thank you very much for finding a solution!

That seems like it would work, as long as nobody figures out a Photoshop template.

Do we email it to support [at] chachingapp [dot] com?

Well, I'm just holding off until we can an official fix.

Website | Twitter
PM me

That is the official fix.

John Casasanta
MacHeist Director
tap tap tap chief

I've seen several comments after John's explanation of the privacy issue that seemed to miss this point, so I'll restate it as I understood it:

The problem is NOT those Heist winners who want to use Cha-Ching and don't mind their email addresses being sent out.  The problem IS the Heist winners who did NOT register Cha-Ching, and may not be ok with their email addresses / private data being shared when they didn't authorize it.  Any solution that intends to be fully trustworthy and responsible about people's private information needs to respect that those who don't want to be involved / use Cha-Ching can't be required to do anything - another words sharing needs to be opt-in, not opt-out. 

And Bob, frankly I want the directorate to be responsible for deciding and doing the correct thing with my private information.  This is one thing that I don't feel they should "air and decide" with the input of MH members, as I would hold them fully responsible for a bad decision. 

So while I agree with your sentiment, I think you're being unnecessarily harsh and judgemental of the situation (and I'm one of those who has anxiously been waiting and checking daily on the Cha-Ching license situation).

Whistle while you work.  Patience is key.

No, an official fix in which they solve the problem without us having to prove that we deserve it.  This is an half-assed solution that is a major cop out.

Website | Twitter
PM me

Exactly. At this point, no matter what we we decided to do here, I would've completely expected Bob to drop by and shit on us. I totally feel that the solution we came up with is the most appropriate one given the situation.

Lately Bob's just become a troll here. It's unfortunate but it seems like he has some axe to grind and this is his outlet for it. He didn't start out this way so I'd love to know his motivation for trying to pick fights so often.

John Casasanta
MacHeist Director
tap tap tap chief

We all agree that this isn't a completely convenient solution.

But think of it this way...you're getting an app worth $40 for free by simply sending an email. The Cha-Ching people have to do a lot of work on their end too here as a result of adding product activation so be understanding of that.

John Casasanta
MacHeist Director
tap tap tap chief

Since nobody answered, I'd just like to mention that their blog says that this is, in fact, the address to use.

Just so you guys know, I followed the directions laid out by John and they added me to the database without issue.

Step,
Based on what I’ve seen, I don’t trust the directorate that much. If they want to do anything that affects my information I want to be consulted. In this case its irrelevant since I would agree to share my information with the Cha-Ching people. While I respect your opinion, mine differs.

I would be interested in knowing why you think I’m being harsh and judgmental. I respect your opinion.

Look Ma, no teeth!

“Paranoia strikes deep”

” I would've completely expected Bob to drop by and shit on us.”

Why would you expect that?
How am I “shitting” on you?

The fact that you can’t take feedback that has been very specific and focused on your application is not my problem. If you want to make it personal, it is your decision. If you want to continue on insulting me that’s fine by me. If it makes you happy keep on behaving like that. I know I can substantiate the comments I made regarding your software, and I’m far from being the only one who has made those comments. And once again, I use a different application now. No big deal. I moved on.

And how exactly am I trolling? In fact, you were the one who trolled in this thread and I fell for it. I shouldn’t have taken the time to respond to you.

You want to know my motivation for trying to pick up fights? Are you serious? Obviously you don’t know me or anything about me, and your perception of things is quite distorted. I understand that communication via a message board is not ideal, but this is too much. I do wonder whether you’re being serious because that’s scary.

And congratulations on finding a simple solution.

Look Ma, no teeth!

I was also added to the database within the day and am now running the current version.

"Based on what I’ve seen, I don’t trust the directorate that much." Where the hell's that coming from?!

The point all along here is that we're trying to maintain everyone's trust by NOT giving out your email addresses without your permission. This is just more of your trolling especially since you claim that "I don’t use Cha-Ching so this doesn’t affect me".

John Casasanta
MacHeist Director
tap tap tap chief

Jesus, Bob, are you going to continue to beat the dead horse with the iClip 4 thing? You take a few comments on a couple of download sites and continually try to insinuate that the whole world hates iClip 4. The fact remains that there are tens of thousands of registered users and it's impossible to satisfy everyone. Especially you. You have no clue about all the personal email we receive praising the new version.

You've gone through this on the MacHeist forums over and over and over and over and over and over and over and I'm sick of it and I'm sure most people here are too so give it a rest. Or maybe just become the marketing manager for PTHShadowCuteClip or whatever you use these days.

You're trolling because you continually make smart-ass remarks like the one earlier that led to this whole exchange. Then you try to bullshit us by implying that you didn't or I'm taking things the wrong way. The "trust" remark in the previous post is another good, unqualified example of your manipulation attempts.

You obviously have a bone to pick with me and/or the rest of MacHeist crew so I'd appreciate it if you acted like a man and just got whatever your gripe is into the open instead of playing these childish passive aggressive games.

Or maybe I'm on crack and am reading too much into Bob's replies...if so, I'd like to hear it from the rest of you. All I know is that I tried my best to rectify this situation so that you'd all be able to keep using Cha-Ching for free (again it wasn't the most convenient solution but it works) and things turned into a flame-war here for no good reason.

John Casasanta
MacHeist Director
tap tap tap chief

Bob is being an ass and you are cursing back at him. Both of you really need to chill.

This Cha-Ching thing seems to have worked out satisfactorily, so I say lock this thread, start a stickied support thread in case anyone has problems emailing Midnight Apps, and walk it off.

How is that trolling?
I don’t trust the directorate based on:

1. Problems and situations that were never addressed, such as the issue with people who solved Heist 4 and never got the PM. Feel free to check MacHeist Support Desk. Maybe you’ll find more examples.

2. Problems when purchasing the bundle.

3. Problems with missing licenses, multiple licenses, multiple charges, etc.

By the way, I even took the time to reply to some of the people who were having trouble. You’re welcome

I do have a lot of respect for many (most) of the people involved, and many of the issues were eventually solved. Once again Based on what I’ve seen, I don’t trust the directorate that much.”
I hope that answers your question. Once more I’m trying to be specific, but apparently that does not help.

And I do applaud your effort. That’s why I said And congratulations on finding a simple solution.

Look Ma, no teeth!

Well, the process seemed to be relatively painless for me.... and Juan wrote:

Like Bob, I wasn't too enthusiastic about Cha-Ching in it's first incarnation, but it's grown to include the features I wanted, so THANK YOU Juan for letting me try it out for an extended period.  My G4 DP 800 lacks an iSight, but I love the rest of the features it's grown to include.

I'd suggest that Johnred RE-READ Bob's post concerning his beloved iClip (where Bob says he uses it, and gave it 4 stars) and perhaps do the right thing in actually responding to the concern stated about the app's size -- why is iClip so much larger than the other clipboard apps?  Why is it larger than Cha-Ching?

If John's a competent developer worthy of 10,000 licenses, he should have good reason for every Megabyte that's in iClip 4.... and should also be man enough to say whether or not the day of 5,000 free iClips (over on MacZot) is include in his total count, and that's not including the three or so I've personally gotten in various bundles.

While iClip has been my clipboard manager of choice, I do have licenses for the others, and given Johnred's total Asshole breakdown freakout here, I will check them out.  All devs considering joining MH or MDA ought to understand the amount of respect that goes into a statement like:

That's, what, four or five independent shareware devs trying to make a living that John just shat on?

Shame on you, John.  The indy mac scene deserves better.

Mozy - backup to the cloud, restore when your computer bites the dust.
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I’m guessing that’s why you seem so angry, but I don’t know. Let me just clarify a few things:
1. I don’t take a few comments on a couple of download sites and try to insinuate that the whole world hates iClip 4, I dislike iClip 4 for very specific reasons that I have already mentioned. Other people dislike it as well. If tens of thousands love it be happy about it. Enjoy you success. Why do you care what I say about iClip anyway? You’re satisfied with your product. Tens of thousands love it. End of story.

And it’s not impossible to satisfy me. Once again, my comments addressed specific issues. Quite easy to satisfy me in that regard, actually. Additionally, I can only think of another software company that made me feel the way I do about your software and that was back in OS 9 (MacEase).

With 741 programs in my applications folder disliking one or two or three or even ten is a pretty decent record of how I’m easy to satisfy. But I’m not a conformist. Sorry.

Yes, I have posted about it. And I posted over and over and over and over and over and over and over. Many of my posts were replies.

What manipulation? (Maybe I shouldn’t waste my time asking for clarification).
I already addressed the trust remark. Read it if you want. No manipulation whatsoever. (Note to self: Do not express own opinion in this forum).

What are you talking about?????????
I don’t care about you at all. Regarding MacHeist there is a lot to admire, as is the case of many of the people involved in this project, not to mention the participants. But sorry, I simply don’t care about you. Indifference is a more accurate word. But keep in mind that it wasn’t always this way. As I have mentioned before, in the past I only had positive things to say about you and your software. While I dislike your software I don’t dislike you, in spite of your insults toward me. But indifference seems more appropriate now.

Cool, a popularity contest!
Why did it turn into a flame war?
Was it because of me saying that there was a simple solution and you saying the solution was not simple? In the end you came up with another simple solution. And there are other solutions that are also simple, by the way. Yours works. And it is simple. End of story. (Unless you want to call it beginning of story, which is fine by me).

You asked me for an explanation to my LOL, -with some added emphasis in italics- and I provided one. I did address your italics with a

I provided a couple of suggestions as well as links as I often do. For years I’ve been fascinated by the Centenari brothers’ approach to business as well as procedural (and distributive) justice. Sorry for sharing and for answering your questions.

I did make one smart-ass comment when I said “If work is a problem then I have no solution” and I’m realizing this while re-reading the thread. I do apologize for that one. Consider that I took the time to address your question. If I had anything against you as you continually state, I wouldn’t have taken the time to respond.

Regarding the rest of your attacks, I have nothing to apologize for. I’m not trolling, and I have better and more important things to do than to “drop shit” (to use your words.) By the way I frequent many fora, and have never been called a troll. The fact that I disagree with you on a variety of things is just that, a disagreement. You have your opinions, and I have mine. You want to call me Bobtroll for mentioning iClip in another thread, that’s fine. I already explained why I mentioned iClip but you insist on calling me a troll.
http://macheist.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=3871

And remember your “I can't wait for the Bob rebuttal”?
http://macheist.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=3666

And your “(a lot of words)” comment? (And there’s more but it’s late now.)

Was I a troll then too? I actually believe that my replies have been civilized. I criticized your app and was very specific with my comments regarding your application, and you criticize me as a person.
And I am a troll. Whatever makes you happy.

Look Ma, no teeth!

Same here, took a few hours. But for getting something for free, it seems like a good deal to me.

twitter

Good. I sent my email.

Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish.

You saying that you don't trust the Directorate implies that we've intentionally done things to cheat people. That's what I'm taking serious offense to.

No doubt, MacHeist had its share of technical difficulties, etc. but we did our best to rectify things. As far as I know, all the issues you mentioned were ultimately taken care of. There were people who attempted to pay for the bundle and were never charged so we ended up taking the hit on that.

So this shouldn't be a "trust" issue, as you put it...if you said "I have little confidence the Directorate making everything work without a hitch" I'd be right there with you.

John Casasanta
MacHeist Director
tap tap tap chief

I am very pleased with Cha-Ching, the Directorate, and MacHeist. I never expected to have a free-ride forever on Cha-Ching, and good developers are always worth supporting. I fully expect that there will be an upgrade fee on future versions of Cha-Ching, and I fully intend on paying for the newer software. Thanks!

This isn't an iClip thread so I don't want to hijack it but to answer your question, iClip 4 has a lot of custom graphics in it.

For the record (so that it doesn't look like I'm "cooking the books"), there are over 40,000 registered users and these don't count the 50,000+ that downloaded it from the MacZOT promo that I think you're referencing (nor does it include the hundreds of thousands that have downloaded the free iClip lite). The 40,000 figure does include a few other MacZOT promos, an MUPromo, and of course the MacHeist bundle.

This wasn't at all a dig at the other multi clipboard devs. I have respect for all my competition (with one exception being where the developer has an ongoing smear campaign against my software).

John Casasanta
MacHeist Director
tap tap tap chief

No, it does not imply that and I have never said anything to that effect. If you want to add strange meanings to my words that’s your choice.

And I applaud that you did your best and corrected most of the issues. In case you’re interested, following a model such as PDCA (or PDSA) could have prevented some of the technical difficulties.
http://www.lrqa.co.uk/images/guidance/a … a/pdca.gif
The planning part of the process can often take over 50% of the project, and helps avoid pitfalls later on. For example, for a 6-month project the planning stage may take over 3 months.

You can’t tell me what my opinion should or shouldn’t be. If I say I have no trust, I’m saying it based on facts which I have already posted. If I base my opinion on fantasies that have little to do with reality, I’ll be grateful if people point me in the right direction and make me see my errors. But it’s hard to argue with facts, and usually my opinion is well substantiated.
Let’s make this easier. I’m auto-banning myself. Whatever you say, I agree with you 100%

<"And like that, he's gone.">

Look Ma, no teeth!

Good, now we get to the root of your behavior and you've shown what motivates your incessant trolling. I'm glad you finally stated it in black and white.

John Casasanta
MacHeist Director
tap tap tap chief

I wonder how both Bob and John would do in a face-to-face? I have been on many forums, and there were individuals that I did not care for, but when I actually had the chance to meet them, I liked them, and matters changed. I'm not saying that this is always the case, but the internet has so removed us from true social interaction that it is harder to get to know someone.

John and I fight online all the time, but we fight more in person.

Co-Creator of MacHeist, Clear, Partner at tap tap tap | follow me on twitter

I think an Admin should rename this thread "The brutal verbal spar between Bob and John."

F451, I understand your point.  I had an instructor back in '93 who warned the students of the class I was in of this as the internet was gaining momentum at that time.  Good communication is tough enough in the real world and it can be harder for some in a forum.  Many don't understand how to be aware of their communication skills via different platforms and some forget that now they're not only talking to others but are talking to others that can be from different cultures and not just the local neighborhood.  Different cultures do not necessarily mean different races or religions as commonly thought.

No matter though it's unlikely to change anytime soon.  People are people.  I've been here since the beginning and my impression of Bob has not been a great one.  Many of the posts he makes tend to be disruptive of topics and comes across to me as...

"Blah, blah, blah, listen to me, blah, blah, blah."

Some probably read some of my posts that way as well.  There are certainly others who qualify as well.  People are people.  Hopefully people can learn from it and not let it consume them so much.

<insert out-dated referral link here>

QFT

John Casasanta
MacHeist Director
tap tap tap chief

Why are you shitting on a thread that has nothing to do with your concerns.....the problem has nothing to do with macheist and everything to do with the chaching guys changing their security stuff....it was brought to their intention, john made a suggestion, problem is solved.

Go pound sand or something, because your posts annoy me..find a hobby other than fighting with people on a forum.....it's gay

Same here, thanks to the Directorate and the Cha-Ching guys for coming up with this solution.

I hear you guys even use knifes.

---

Bob, it's not worth posting those long posts, it's just getting ridiculous. Sometimes you just gotta leave some things as they are. I think if you don't try to continuously argue like you do sometimes, it'll be a lot more enjoyable for everyone. We do appreaciate your contribution to other parts of the forums, but I'm pretty sure no one enjoys this kind of useless bickering.

Back on my two feet

Ok, guys, Bob said he was done, let's not turn this into a "beat on Bob" thread.  This was brutal enough as it was. 

From an outside perspective, Bob, if you're still reading, I'd say that it was hard to see you continually bring up iClip and your dislike on a forum that you knew was run by the developer of said app.  I have to admit that John put up with it admirably well for a time, but you can only rub crap in someone's face so many times before they get sick of it - and in this thread, you and he finally got each other to snap. 

Back to Cha-Ching: my license still isn't working - very frustrating, especially since I was working on screencasts and a couple tutorials.  I've given up for now, since I just don't have the time and I've gotten too frustrated.  I'm glad to see others' licenses have been entered - guess I'll send mine again.

Whistle while you work.  Patience is key.

Did he respond to you step?.....the chaching guy i mean?

I followed John's instructions today, and within thirty minutes (no joke) I received an apologetic email, of which there was no need, as I am thankful for Cha-Ching, and my activation was immediate.

Step, I had issues to begin with too, but I responded directly to Juan's email, and after about five or six tries, we got something that works, so I would encourage you to get in touch with him if you're still having troubles.

No I do not reckon you are on crack, or else I would also be on crack and that would not be a good thing... I have nothing but praise for you johnred or any other member of the MacHeist team. Keep up the good work and thank you for a brilliant (and privacy conscious solution for Cha-Ching) ... (and I do use iClip everyday would not know how to edit my damn project proposal without it).

"I'm not tempted to write a song about George W.Bush. I couldn't figure out what sort of song I would write. That's the problem: I don't want to satirise George Bush and his puppeteers, I want to vaporise them ... And that's not funny." - Tom Lehrer

I got a response from Cha-Ching.....they added me to the database!

the greatest blog known to mankind / twitter / flickr

They said they added me, but its still not working.

Ditto.

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Meadorg, I love your avatar!

Thanks. It came about several months ago when someone was complaining about the lurkers that "never even bothered to change the default avatar."

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I got my response!